The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria

In this episode, I'm joined by Drs. Brandon May and Maggie Pavone, and Kate Heersink to talk about how we can better support healthier lifestyles for individuals with developmental disabilities.
We start by digging into how each of them came to this work. Maggie shares some early experiences working as a direct support professional, where she began to notice patterns between food-related variables and challenging behavior. Brandon talks about coming into behavior analysis through the health and fitness world, and seeing firsthand how difficult it was to support individuals in building healthier routines without a clear behavioral framework. Kate adds her perspective from working with individuals with brain injury, where the connection between physical health and overall functioning is hard to ignore.
We also spend some time acknowledging that this isn't entirely new territory. There's a solid body of work—both within and outside of behavior analysis—focused on physical activity and health for individuals with disabilities. At the same time, there's still a gap when it comes to practical, easy-to-implement tools that can be used by the people doing the day-to-day work.
From there, we get into the early development of the Fit 4 All program and how it's currently being implemented in a day program setting for adults with developmental disabilities. Kate walks through what a typical session looks like, including:
Starting the day by ensuring wearable tech (e.g., a Fitbit) is in place
Using a token system tied to individualized goals (hydration, movement, functional fitness, and nutrition skills)
Embedding physical activity throughout the day (walking, fitness videos, etc.)
Teaching basic nutrition concepts using structured learning trials
Incorporating functional skills like cooking where appropriate
One of the things I appreciated about this approach is how integrated it is. Rather than treating exercise or nutrition as separate, isolated targets, they're woven into the flow of the day and supported through clear contingencies and reinforcement systems.
We also talk about the importance of working within real-world environments. This isn't about creating tightly controlled, clinic-based interventions—it's about meeting people where they are and building systems that can be implemented by direct support staff, teachers, and caregivers in the settings where individuals actually live and spend their time.
This is very much a "boots on the ground" application of behavior analysis—figuring out how to increase things like step count, heart rate, and water consumption in ways that are practical, sustainable, and individualized. And like a lot of good ABA work, it involves ongoing problem-solving—adjusting activities, testing different approaches, and using data to guide decisions.
If you're a BCBA, or someone working directly with individuals with developmental disabilities, this conversation is a good reminder that health and wellness is an area where our science has a lot to offer—and probably more room to grow.
🔑 Key Takeaways
Health behaviors (movement, nutrition, hydration) are behavior—and can be addressed using behavior-analytic principles
Many professionals feel underprepared to support these areas without a structured framework
Embedding interventions into natural environments (e.g., day programs) increases feasibility and sustainability
Simple systems (token boards, wearable data, clear goals) can support meaningful behavior change
Effective programming in this area requires flexibility, creativity, and ongoing data-based decision making
🧩 Why This Matters
Individuals with developmental disabilities are often at higher risk for health-related issues tied to sedentary behavior and diet. At the same time, these are areas that don't always receive systematic attention in programming.
This is one place where behavior analysis can have a meaningful impact on long-term quality of life.
📚 Resources Mentioned
Prior episode with Brandon (Session 127: What is Behavioral Sports Psychology?)
Researchers mentioned: James Rimmer
Ray Miltenberger
Matt Normand
Tim Hackenberg

DeLuca and Holburn (1992). Effects of a variable-ratio reinforcement schedule with changing criteria on exercise in obese and nonobese boys
Sponsors
CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. 
The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!
The Whoop Strap. If you want to take control of your health and fitness, start by getting the data you need with the Whoop Strap. And by using this link, you'll get your first month free!

In Session 329, I'm joined once again by Dr. Nick Green, Ph.D., BCBA-D, who's been doing some really interesting work at the intersection of fitness and behavior science.
In this episode, Nick walks us through the basics of heart rate training zones and why simply "working out" isn't always enough. We talk about the general recommendation of 150 minutes of moderate to vigorous activity per week, but more importantly, how to make sure that time is actually spent in the right zones—particularly Zones 2 through 4—where you're going to see real cardiovascular benefits.
From there, we get into VO2 max, what it is, why it matters, and how you can measure or estimate it—even without access to a lab. Nick also shares some practical training strategies, including the Norwegian 4x4 protocol, which is a structured way to improve cardiovascular fitness through intervals of high-intensity work followed by recovery.
As you might expect, we also spend a good amount of time talking about behavior. Why is it so hard for people to stick with an exercise routine? What gets in the way? And how can we apply behavior-analytic principles to improve adherence?
Nick makes a compelling case for the role of planning and accountability. One of the things he's seen in his coaching practice is that when people invest in structured support, they're much more likely to follow through. We talk about how environmental variables, scheduling, and clear contingencies can make or break a fitness routine.
This was a really practical conversation—whether you're a behavior analyst looking to apply these principles to your own life, or just someone trying to get a little more consistent with exercise.
If you're interested in working with Nick or learning more about his coaching services, be sure to check out his website, which you can find in the resource list below:
BehaviorFit.com (Nick's website; check out his courses here!)
Nick on LinkedIn
BehaviorFit's Instagram
Nick's previous BOP Interviews: Session 47, Session 105, and Session 132
Fogel, et al. (2010). The effects of exergaming on physical activity among inactive children in a physical education classroom.
Green, et al. (2016). Decreasing bouts of prolonged sitting among office workers.
Heart Rate Training 101
Heart Rate Zone Calculator
Norwegian 4X4 Study
Norwegian 4X4 20-Year Heart-Age Reduction Study
High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT) effects on VO2 Max
Sponsor Shoutouts!
Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. 
HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
The BOP Patreon. Do you want to get the show ad-free and before everyone else? Click here to learn how!

Episode Summary
In this episode, I'm joined by Dr. Daniel Fienup, Dr. Kate Loomis, and Lilian Morales to discuss their recent paper in JABA, Turning the Page: Increasing children's preference for looking at and engaging with books.
In this episode, we explore how books can function as powerful reinforcers for young children, especially in early learning and ABA contexts. We discuss how to identify when books are actually reinforcing, how to condition books as reinforcers if they're not already, and practical strategies for incorporating them into teaching and behavior support.
Key Topics Covered
1. What Makes Something a Reinforcer?
Reinforcers are defined by their effect on behavior—not by intention

A book is only a reinforcer if it increases the likelihood of a behavior

Preference ≠ reinforcement (must test it)

2. Are Books Naturally Reinforcing?
For some children: yes (especially those with strong interest in stories, visuals, or routines)

For others: books may be neutral or even aversive

Depends on learning history and prior pairing

3. Conditioning Books as Reinforcers
Pair books with already-established reinforcers (e.g., attention, snacks, praise)

Make reading interactive and engaging (voices, movement, pointing, questions)

Start with short durations and build up tolerance/enjoyment

Follow the child's lead (let them turn pages, choose books, etc.)

4. Embedding Books into Teaching
Use books as part of discrete trial or natural environment teaching

Reinforce responses with brief access to a favorite book

Incorporate targets into reading (labeling, WH questions, listener responding)

Use repeated readings to build fluency and predictability

5. Expanding Reinforcer Repertoires
Why it matters: reduces reliance on edibles or screens

Books are portable, social, and developmentally beneficial

Helps build early literacy and joint attention skills

6. Common Mistakes
Assuming all kids like books

Using books too long as a reinforcer (loses value)

Not rotating or updating book options

Ignoring signs of disengagement

7. Practical Tips
Keep a small "high-value" book rotation

Use novelty strategically

Observe what aspects the child enjoys (pictures, repetition, sensory elements)

Track what actually increases responding

Takeaways
Books can absolutely function as reinforcers—but only if conditioned or preferred

Pairing and engagement are key to building their value

Using books as reinforcers supports both behavior change and language development

Resources
Tsai and Greer (2006). Conditioned Observation of Books and Accelerated Acquisition of Textual Responding by Preschool Children.

Teachers College MA in ABA program.

Teachers College Ph.D. in ABA program.

Kanazawa et al. (2024). A comparison of parental attention and preferred items during tummy time: A consecutive controlled case series evaluation.

D. Ross & R. Douglas Greer (Eds.). (2025). When Text Speaks: Learning to Read and Reading to Learn. Sloan Publishing.

The Fred S. Keller School.

Comprehensive Application of Behavior Analysis to Schooling (CABAS).

Comportamiento, espacio y algoritmos: Análisis de la conducta recargado
En este episodio de Espacio y Comportamiento, Miguel Avila conversa con Alejandro León sobre una dimensión del comportamiento que históricamente ha sido poco explorada en nuestro campo: el espacio.
Más allá de medir cuándo ocurre una conducta o cuántas veces se presenta, esta conversación propone mirar dónde ocurre, cómo nos movemos en el ambiente y cómo los patrones de acercamiento, alejamiento y trayectoria espacial organizan el comportamiento. Alejandro comparte su recorrido poco convencional desde la ingeniería y las matemáticas hacia la psicología científica y el análisis de la conducta, así como el papel clave que tuvo la experimentación, la interdisciplinariedad y la creatividad metodológica en su carrera.
A lo largo del episodio exploramos cómo herramientas modernas como la visión por computadora, el análisis tridimensional del movimiento, los algoritmos matemáticos y las bioseñales (como la variabilidad cardíaca en tiempo real) están permitiendo un "análisis de la conducta recargado": fiel a sus principios, pero expandido por nuevas tecnologías.
La conversación aterriza estos conceptos en aplicaciones prácticas para contextos clínicos, educativos y de investigación, mostrando cómo analistas de conducta —sin convertirse en ingenieros— pueden empezar a integrar el análisis espacial, colaborar con otras disciplinas y mejorar la evaluación, el diseño de ambientes y la prevención de riesgos.
Un episodio inspirador para la comunidad latinoamericana y global, que demuestra que es posible innovar, producir ciencia de alto impacto y dialogar con otras disciplinas desde nuestra región hacia el mundo.
Behavior, Space, and Algorithms: Behavior Analysis Reloaded
In this episode of Space and Behavior, Miguel Avila sits down with Alejandro León to explore a dimension of behavior that has long been overlooked in our field: space.
Rather than focusing only on when behavior occurs or how often it happens, this conversation invites us to examine where behavior unfolds, how organisms move through environments, and how spatial patterns of approach, avoidance, and trajectories organize behavior over time. Alejandro shares his unconventional journey from engineering and mathematics into scientific psychology and behavior analysis, highlighting the role of experimental work, interdisciplinary collaboration, and methodological creativity.
The episode dives into how modern tools—such as computer vision, three-dimensional motion tracking, mathematical algorithms, and physiological signals like real-time heart rate variability—are making it possible to study behavior in ways that were unimaginable during the time of Watson, Thorndike, or Skinner. The result is a "reloaded" behavior analysis: conceptually rigorous, yet technologically expanded.
Listeners will also hear concrete examples of how spatial data and bio-signals can inform functional assessment, environmental design, intervention planning, safety, and early detection of behavioral patterns—without requiring clinicians to become engineers.
This episode is both practical and inspirational, especially for researchers, students, and practitioners in Latin America and beyond, showing that meaningful innovation in behavior analysis can emerge locally while achieving global scientific impact.

Thanks for joining me for Session 326 of The Behavioral Observations Podcast. This episode was recorded live at the 2025 Verbal Behavior Conference, where I had the honor of moderating the annual panel discussion.
If you haven't attended a previous Verbal Behavior Conference, you're in luck, because the next one is coming up in just a few short weeks. The 2026 VBC will be held on March 26th and 27th, and it will be preceded by a full day workshop.
If you've listened to the show for any length of time, you've heard my go on about how unique this conference is. If not, please indulge me for a moment. The VBC is unlike any other event because each presenter gives two talks across the two days of the conference. This provides them opportunities to dive deeper into their subject matter, which gives audience members so much more information to improve their practice with.
If you attend in person, you'll have numerous opportunities to interact directly with the speakers too. Whether that's between sessions getting coffee, grabbing lunch in the nearby cafe, or at the poster sessions, you're probably going to have a chance to pick their brains.
If you can't be there in person, BehaviorLive provides a top-notch virtual experience. I'd also say that the VBC has a very consistent and engaged online community too, to the point of me being able to recognize many online attendees' names having seen their chat commentaries for the past few years.
For this year, the VBC is pulling out all the stops by hosting a discussion with Drs. Patrick McGreevy and Mark Sundberg, where they will talk about how to decide whether a learner should continue with VB-MAPP-like learning objectives, or transition to a functional curriculum, such as Essential for Living.
Thanks for indulging me, back to this episode...
This panel dives into some of the most pressing clinical and practical questions facing practitioners today — from navigating difficult conversations with parents to the nuanced intricacies of mand training, motivating operations, and supporting learners with limited reinforcers.
Whether you are a seasoned BCBA, or an aspiring behavior analyst, this episode is packed with the kind of insight you're just not going to get anywhere else.
Featured Panelists
•       Dr. Judah Axe
•       Dr. Patrick McGreevy
•       Dr. Barbara Esch
•       Dr. Caio Miguel
•       Dr. April Kisamore
•       Dr. Nicole Rodriguez
•       Dr. Tiffany Kodak
Topics Covered in This Episode
Transitioning from Language Acquisition to Functional Skills Curricula
The Momentary Nature of Motivating Operations
Mand Training with Learners Who Engage in Self-Stimulatory Behavior
Working with Learners Who Have Very Limited Reinforcers
Pre-Requisite Skills for Learning More Complex Forms of Verbal Behavior
Instructional Control Pre-Requisites for Teaching Echoic Repertoires
Challenges of Conducting Clinical Research in Verbal Behavior
Supporting Learners from Bilingual Households
Sponsor Shoutouts!
The School Behavioral Solutions for Special Educators & Behavior Analysts. The Behavior Toolbox Conference is a one-day, high-impact professional convening that brings together experienced practitioners and leaders from across education and behavior science to share what actually works in schools. While the live event has come and gone, it is available on-demand through BehaviorLive.
Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
CEUs from Behavioral Observations. Learn from your favorite podcast guests while you're commuting, walking the dog, or whatever else you do while listening to podcasts. New events are being added all the time, so check them out here. 
HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.