IndoctriNation

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein sits down with Lindsey Sanders to talk about her memoir, The Sacred Song of a Heretic, and what it means to reclaim "sacredness" outside of a high-control religion.
Lindsey was raised in a multigenerational Mormon family, where she was taught to value obedience, certainty, traditional gender roles, a limited range of acceptable emotions, and avoidance of outside sources of information. As a teenager, a relationship with another girl set off a chain of guilt, parental discipline, and repentance that pushed her to "double down" on her faith.
Then, in 2019–2020, her brothers' decision to leave the church prompted Lindsey to research Mormon history for herself. Within six months, she walked away. 
Rachel and Lindsey dive into the long process of deprogramming — therapy, finding the online ex-Mormon community, a C-PTSD diagnosis framed through the lens of religious and spiritual abuse, and Lindsey's perspective on Mormon Church policies toward LGBTQ and trans members.
This is a conversation about indoctrination, identity, leaving a high-control religion, and what healing can look like when you start trusting your own voice again.

Lindsey’s Links
Book: https://a.co/d/00nrrG6s
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thehealingexmo/
Substack: https://thehealingexmo.substack.com/

Connect with us on social media: 
⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠
Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:
https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign
Journal App: 
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 
In this Patreon bonus episode, host Rachel Bernstein unpacks the idea of "cults of two" — one-on-one relationships that can carry the same coercive control, manipulation, and reality-distortion found in larger high-control groups.
How does a single person create cult-like power without a group? Rachel breaks down the tactics manipulators use to isolate, discredit, and slowly reshape a victim's sense of reality — and why leaving these relationships can feel impossible, even like betrayal.
If you've ever wondered how narcissistic abuse, trauma bonding, and gaslighting take hold in a relationship, this episode offers language and clarity for what's really happening beneath the surface.

Connect with us on social media: 
⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠
Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:
https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign
Journal App: 
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In this episode, host Rachel Bernstein welcomes back author Tia Levings to discuss her new book, 'I Belong to Me: A Survivor’s Guide to Recovery and Hope After Religious Trauma.'
Tia opens up about surviving church-sanctioned domestic abuse and the long, deliberately paced process of rebuilding selfhood after leaving Christian patriarchy. She and Rachel explore how reclaiming body awareness, personal boundaries, and the simple practice of "I statements" can counter indoctrination.
The conversation moves through the disorientation and shock that follow leaving a high-control environment or cult, the heightened vulnerability to further exploitation, and the grief of being exiled from former communities. Tia and Rachel discuss how reframing language can reduce shame, and why relearning consent and the freedom to say "no" is central to recovery.
They also examine "story wounds," the mistranslations used to uphold patriarchal systems, the lasting harms of religious patriarchy, and a nuanced understanding of forgiveness — one framed not as obligation, but as a release that becomes possible only after tending to the injury and refusing self-betrayal.
This episode of IndoctriNation explores religious trauma, coercive control, spiritual abuse, fundamentalism recovery, and the path to reclaiming autonomy and identity after a high-control group.

Tia’s Links
Book: https://static.macmillan.com/static/smp/belong-to-me-9781250374271/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tialevingswriter/
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/TiaLevings

Connect with us on social media: 
⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠
Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:
https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign
Journal App: 
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In this episode, Rachel Bernstein interviews Ru Marshall about the hidden world surrounding the guru Carlos Castaneda. Marshall shares insights from their research into Castaneda’s history, manipulation tactics, spiritual abuse, and the disturbing aftermath surrounding his inner circle after his death.
The conversation explores charismatic narcissism, cult control, and how high-control spiritual leaders exploit vulnerability and emotional dependency. Rachel and Marshall also discuss the psychological impact on former followers, institutional denial, and the warning signs of manipulative groups and cult leaders.
Topics include cult psychology, spiritual abuse, manipulation tactics, narcissistic leaders, Carlos Castaneda’s legacy, coercive persuasion, and recovery from high-control groups.

Ru’s Links
Website: https://rmarshallstudio.com/writing
Book: https://www.amazon.com/American-Trickster-Hidden-Carlos-Castaneda/dp/1682194612/ref=sr_1_1

Connect with us on social media: 
⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠
Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:
https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign
Journal App: 
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

This is just a preview of our Patreon exclusive Bonus Episode. You can hear the full episode by becoming a member at:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination 
In this Patreon bonus episode, Rachel Bernstein explores how survivors of narcissistic families, manipulative relationships, and cultic systems can rebuild their identity after years of control, conformity, and emotional conditioning. Many survivors leave asking, “Who am I really?” after individuality has been shamed, punished, or replaced by loyalty and performance.
Rachel discusses identity loss after narcissistic abuse and cult involvement, including why some survivors experiment with new names, values, interests, and lifestyles as they reconnect with themselves outside of trauma and coercive control. She shares practical ways to begin healing through small experiments, body awareness, boundary setting, and learning to separate authentic values from programming.
Topics include narcissistic abuse recovery, cult recovery, people-pleasing, trauma and identity, coercive control, self-discovery, emotional manipulation, and rebuilding self-worth after toxic relationships.

Connect with us on social media: 
⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/indoctrination⁠⁠
Support IndoctriNation on Patreon for exclusive bonus episodes and more: 
https://www.patreon.com/indoctrination⁠
Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link:
https://www.paypal.biz/indoctriNATION
Watch full video episodes of IndoctriNation here:
⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNAi0T2hzH9dM029dkTfj635PzuXl67jS⁠⁠
Restart and Restore: A Journal for Survivors of Manipulation: 
https://a.co/d/1ssz4Rm
Restart and Restore: Companion Notebook:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FSCLTZN4
Download a Free Chapter from Restart and Restore:
https://education.rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restart-and-restore-campaign
Journal App: 
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/restore-journal-app.html
Download Rachel’s Video Lectures and Webinars here:
https://rachelbernsteintherapy.com/videos.html
IndoctriNation is edited by The Podcast Consultant:
⁠https://thepodcastconsultant.com/about

Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands