The Way Out Is In

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino talk about finding beauty and reverence in the most ordinary of things.

Jo shares his new book, Between Earth and Sky, which documents his time in Mitla, Mexico, and his journey of deep looking and finding beauty in the seemingly empty land. Brother Phap Huu emphasizes the importance of mindfulness, stopping, and being present to see the wonder in everyday life.

The hosts further share the concept of consciousness in everything, and the need for reverence in our habits and interactions. The conversation also touches on reciprocity, the importance of community, and the journey of opening one’s heart through listening and acceptance.

The episode concludes with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu, to help listeners ground themselves in the present moment and to recognize the beauty in all life.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Between Earth and Sky
https://www.parallax.org/product/between-earth-and-sky/

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

Order of Interbeing
https://plumvillage.org/community/order-of-interbeing

The Way Out Is In: ‘Space, Time, and the Ultimate Dimension (Episode #54)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/space-time-and-the-ultimate-dimension-episode-54

Mitla
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitla

Stephen Mitchell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Mitchell_(translator)

Tao Te Ching
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tao_Te_Ching

Samsara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sa%E1%B9%83s%C4%81ra

Pema Chödrön
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pema_Ch%C3%B6dr%C3%B6n

Quotes

“We can see beauty everywhere.”

“When we feel alive and present on this Earth, what more do we need?”

“The first act of meditation is learning to stop. It is learning to take a pause and feel the present moment. And feeling the present moment is more important than thinking about the present moment, because, when we attune ourselves into our own body, into our senses, what we see, what we smell, what we hear, what we touch gives us an opportunity to be in touch with life in the very here and now.”

“We can sit and look at a tree or even look at a rock and find all of life in that.”

“This is it.”

“We want to know what’s out in space, but we don’t know what is in our inner space.”

“Depending on how we show up, our way of being can shift and change our whole mental formation, our whole consciousness of reality.”

“Reverence creates a sense of reciprocity because, when we have reverence, we are in conversation with whatever is in front of us. So when we think of things as objects, we’re looking at them as separate from ourselves. But when we have reverence for things, we see that they are talking to us as well as we are talking to them.”

“The beauty of Zen is turning a simple moment into a beautiful ritual.”

“Reverence is a manifestation of our mental formations.”

“I invite everybody to hold their next cup of tea, or coffee, or orange juice, with two hands. It shifts you into a different space. A simple action with two hands, and I’m fully present. Just like when we join our palms and offer a bow, it represents the body and the mind that come together.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino are joined by Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Xa to explore the revolutionary aspect of walking meditation – not just a physical activity but a spiritual practice that can help us ground ourselves and connect with the present moment.

Brother Phap Xa – who co-authored the book Hiking Zen with Brother Phap Luu – shares practical tips for walking meditation, and personal experiences such as the way this type of meditation has helped him deal with strong emotions and transformed his perspective on life.

The conversation also touches on the concept of aimlessness in walking meditation, the importance of walking for the sake of walking, the benefits of walking in silence, the idea of walking with ancestors, the practice of walking for others, and more.

The episode concludes with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu, to help listeners connect with the present moment when walking.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Brother Phap Xa
https://www.parallax.org/authors/brother-phap-xa/

Brother Phap Luu
https://www.parallax.org/authors/brother-phap-luu/

Stephan Harding
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephan_Harding

Hiking Zen
https://www.parallax.org/product/hiking-zen/

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

EIAB
https://www.eiab.eu/

‘The Tortoise and the Hare’
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortoise_and_the_Hare

Old Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-clouds/

The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Doors of Liberation (Episode #18)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-doors-of-liberation-episode-18

The Way Out Is In: ‘Guest Episode: Reconnecting with Gaia – A Deep Time Walk’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/guest-episode-reconnecting-with-gaia-a-deep-time-walk

Quotes

“Don’t take another step until you really believe that you can walk in freedom.”

“When we speak about freedom in the practice, it’s freedom to be fully in the present moment, with every step that we take, with every action that we can accumulate.”

“Whenever I am in fifth gear, I know I need to go down to first gear. And I don’t see it as a slowing down, as a bad thing – I see it as an upgrade to the presence, to the quality of freedom.”

“Meditation is in every action. That’s the way we look at it in our tradition. Meditation is to be engaged in the way we stand, the way we sit, the way we move – even the way we lay down. There is an attention that comes from bringing our mindfulness to how we are in the present moment.”

“I have arrived; I’m home wherever I go.”

“When you walk, don’t talk; just walk. This is one of the most difficult practices.”

“The miracle is not to walk on water, the miracle is to walk on this earth.”

“Walking meditation is an important practice for coming back to the present moment, because then we can recognize that there are many wonders happening in the present moment, inside and around us. And it’s already a wonder to be able to breathe, and to be able to be in touch with the many forms and colors around us.”

“Walk for the sake of walking.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

In this episode, Zen Buddhist monk Brother Phap Huu and leadership coach Jo Confino reflect on the passing of Brother Phap Huu’s father and the power of community in difficult moments, as well as considering insights into the teachings of no birth, no death.

This emotional conversation touches tender places and explores the Brother’s personal journey of grief and loss, from first hearing the news of his father’s stroke, to the funeral and the subsequent processing. Brother Phap Huu further explores his complicated relationship with his father, the sacrifices made by his parents, and his regret at not being able to fully express his gratitude and love.

Indeed, “It’s one thing to teach about ‘no birth, no death’, the passing of a loved one, but it’s a very different thing to experience it.”

The episode ends with a short meditation guided by Brother Phap Huu.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/

And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/

With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

List of resources

Bodh Gaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_Gaya

Bodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_tree

Christiana Figueres
https://www.globaloptimism.com/christiana-figueres 

‘The Fourteen Mindfulness Trainings’
https://plumvillage.org/mindfulness/the-14-mindfulness-trainings 

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Jeta Grove
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetavana 

Joan Halifax
https://www.joanhalifax.org/ 

‘Listening to Namo Avalokiteshvara’
https://plumvillage.app/listening-to-namo-avalokiteshvara/ 

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition 

Sister Chan Khong
https://plumvillage.org/about/sister-chan-khong 

Upaya Zen Center
https://www.joanhalifax.org/upaya 

The Way Out Is In: ‘Slow Down, Rest, and Heal: The Spirit of the Rains Retreat (Episode #7)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/slow-down-rest-and-heal-the-spirit-of-the-rains-retreat

The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89 

Quotes

“Be kind in life because that kindness is something that you can never underestimate. It will come back. Just trust that.”

“For a lot of us immigrants in Canada, the temple was not just a spiritual and religious refuge, it was a cultural refuge. It was where we would see each other as Vietnamese. It was where we would smell the incense, eat the Vietnamese food, and hear the language… The temple was where we touched our little Vietnam and where everyone could feel that their longing was being answered by this community coming together.”

“The good training of Plum Village is to learn to see the flowers first.”

“It is never too late to say what needs to be said, even if someone has passed.”

“‘Enjoy and easy.’ Enjoy that no matter how hard life is, we can always taste joy. And no matter how hectic life is, learn to be at ease; be easy with yourself.”

“The practice of no birth, no death is also to see that life is also right here, right now.”

“For me, the practice of no birth and no death gives us permission to hold both and to not be tied down by only sorrow.”

“We’re here to connect the ultimate and the historical – not to see them as separate, but to bring them closer together.”

If you wish to support our podcast, please follow this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

This episode was recorded live onstage in New Delhi, India, in February 2026, at the end of the pilgrimage In the Footsteps of the Buddha. Leadership coach Jo Confino was joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister Tam Muoi and Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to discuss what it means to renew Buddhism, and Thich Nhat Hanh’s vision for doing so – including his emphasis on simplicity, equality, and making the teachings accessible and relevant to the contemporary world.

They also reflect on their 14-day pilgrimage in India, and how it deepened their understanding of and connection to the Buddha’s teachings. This includes Sister Tam Muoi’s insights about the strong sangha formed among the diverse group of 60 pilgrims from 16 different countries. She also reflects on her personal connection to India and her healing journey of reconnecting with the Buddha’s teachings in their land of origin.

Shantum Seth, who has been leading pilgrimages in India for over 30 years, explains the transformative power of these journeys in allowing people to connect with the Buddha as a human being and experience his teachings’ relevance to their own lives. He also shares plans for the Ahimsa Trust to establish a Plum Village center in India, to continue Thich Nhat Hanh’s legacy and bring the Dharma to a wider audience, especially a young one.

Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.

He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.

Sister Tam Muoi (Sister Samadhi) is from the UK and was ordained in 2012 and became a Dharma teacher in 2022. Having encountered the practice whilst living in France, she became engaged in the French lay sangha and was ordained into the Order of Interbeing in 2004. She is actively supporting the recently created Being Peace Practice Centre in the UK and is deeply committed to the work of healing ancestral harm, and to participation in trainings and retreats exploring White Awareness. Read more here.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

Recordist: Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth
Sound editor: Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com
Publisher: Anca Rusu
Producer: Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com
Executive Producer: Catalin Zorzini

List of resources

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

Advaita Vedanta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advaita_Vedanta

A Pebble for Your Pocket
https://www.parallax.org/product/a-pebble-for-your-pocket/ 

Ashoka
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka

Bodh Gaya
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodh_Gaya

Bodhi tree
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_tree

Dehradun
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehradun

Jamun Village
https://ahimsatrust.org/jamun-village/

Jeta Grove
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetavana

Nalanda University
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nalanda_University

Old Path White Clouds
https://www.parallax.org/product/old-path-white-clouds

Pushyamitra Shunga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushyamitra_Shunga

Sarnath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarnath

Sister Chan Duc
https://plumvillage.org/people/dharma-teachers/sr-chan-duc

Spittoon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spittoon

The Stone Boy and Other Stories
https://www.parallax.org/product/the-stone-boy-and-other-stories/

Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-path

The Way Out Is In: ‘The Three Jewels (Episode #89)’
https://plumvillage.org/podcast/the-three-jewels-episode-89

Vulture Peak
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulture_Peak

Xuanzang
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuanzang

Quotes

“Often friends would tell Thay, ‘I try to do walking meditation. I find that difficult – but I love the sitting.’ And Thay would say, ‘Well, then sit. Do the practice that you enjoy.’ It’s so important to touch joy in whatever practice we do. It shouldn’t be hard work and creating more battles on your cushion.”

“Suffering is where we start. It’s your own suffering you have to handle. But also look at the suffering in the world. It’s not separate: other people’s suffering is your suffering; other people’s happiness is your happiness. That’s where we start. And then, know that all these things are interconnected. Nothing exists independently.”

“India is a great teacher because she’s confronting you all the time. That’s why we call her Mother India, I guess. She also challenges every preconception, and so, ‘Everything you say about India, the exact opposite is also true.’”

“It’s dangerous coming to India because you’re going to go back different.”

“Don’t believe something just because a teacher says it, or because it’s written in scripture, or has come from centuries-old tradition. Try it. And see how you feel.”

“Thay was a very revolutionary teacher because of his aspiration to make Buddhism relevant. He had seen the damage done by dogmatism, by fossilization. And so he was always thinking of new ways that we could make Buddhism appropriate.”

“Our precepts – the behavioral code for all the monastics and also for the lay friends – are rewritten every five or 10 years to update them. It’s quite extraordinary that Thay had the courage to do that; he faced criticism from many very traditional countries.”

“Something important about the Buddha Dharma is that it is very much about what we experience in this world. We’re not talking about something which is going to happen after some sort of transcendence. And that’s why I think the Buddha Dharma is relevant to our Earth: we have to care for this little planet of ours, we have to care for our rivers, we have to care for our climate, to care for each other. And it’s not about an outcome in some past or future life; the karma happens right here and now. Every action has a result and that result can be seen in this life and in this community.”

“You sit, you enjoy your breath, you get a little sense of being a Buddha for a moment. Maybe you can become a part-time Buddha, maybe a full-time Buddha. ‘Buddha’ just means ‘to be awake’ – and with mindfulness practice, being mindful is a type of awakening.”

This week’s show was recorded using an improvised audio recording setup while the podcast team was on pilgrimage through India. Thank you for your understanding. 🙏

If you wish to support our podcast, please visit this link. Thank you!

Welcome to a new episode of The Way Out Is In: The Zen Art of Living, a podcast series mirroring Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s deep teachings of Buddhist philosophy: a simple yet profound methodology for dealing with our suffering, and for creating more happiness and joy in our lives.

The final in a series of six episodes recorded during the In the Footsteps of the Buddha pilgrimage, this instalment was made in Sravasti, India, in February 2026. In it, leadership coach Jo Confino is joined by Zen Buddhist nun Sister Tam Muoi and Dharma teacher Shantum Seth to share their experiences and reflections as they visit Sravasti and Jeta Grove. They discuss the power of community, and how the sangha held space for grief when co-host Brother Phap Huu received news of his father’s passing.

They further explore themes of impermanence, non-attachment, transformation, the balance between the ultimate and historical dimensions in Buddhist teachings, and the importance of insight and practice. All three share personal stories illustrating these themes and the ways the pilgrimage has deepened their understanding of and connection to the Buddha’s legacy.

The episode concludes with the group singing a song composed by a fellow pilgrim, capturing the essence of the ‘way out is in’ teachings.

About the pilgrimage:

In 1988, Shantum Seth was invited by Thich Nhat Hanh (Thay) to organize a pilgrimage to the sacred sites associated with the Buddha’s life across India. Subsequently, Thay encouraged Shantum to continue guiding such journeys each year, offering pilgrimage itself as a mindfulness practice – one that the Buddha had suggested.

Shantum has been leading these transformative journeys ever since, offering people from around the world the opportunity to follow In the Footsteps of the Buddha with awareness and insight. After 15 years at the United Nations, Shantum left to volunteer with the Ahimsa Trust, which represents Thay’s work in India and promotes the practice of “peace in oneself and peace in the world”.

Through Buddhapath, his expression of Right Livelihood, Shantum continues to guide pilgrimages and share the wisdom and culture of the places he visits in India and across Buddhist Asia, cultivating community through these deeply meaningful journeys.

To learn more about upcoming pilgrimages, visit www.buddhapath.com, or follow Shantum on Facebook and Instagram at @eleven_directions.

Shantum Seth, an ordained Dharmacharya (Dharma teacher) in the Buddhist Mindfulness lineage of Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, teaches in India and across the world. A co-founder of Ahimsa Trust, he has been a student of Thich Nhat Hanh’s teachings for the past 35 years, and, since 1988, has led pilgrimages and other multi-faith, educational, cultural, spiritual, and transformative journeys across diverse regions of India and Asia.

He is actively involved in educational, social, and ecological programmes, including work on cultivating mindfulness in society, including with educators, the Indian Central Reserve Police Force, and the corporate sector. Across various Indian sanghas, Dharmacharya Shantum is the primary teacher of different practices of mindfulness from Thich Nhat Hanh’s tradition.

Sister Tam Muoi (Sister Samadhi) is from the UK and was ordained in 2012, becoming a Dharma teacher in 2022. Having encountered the practice whilst living in France, she became engaged in the French lay sangha and was ordained into the Order of Interbeing in 2004. She is actively supporting the recently created Being Peace Practice Centre in the UK and is deeply committed to the work of healing ancestral harm, and to participation in trainings and retreats exploring White Awareness. Read more here.

Co-produced by the Plum Village App:
https://plumvillage.app/ 
And Global Optimism:
https://globaloptimism.com/
With support from the Thich Nhat Hanh Foundation:
https://thichnhathanhfoundation.org/

Recordist: Ann Nguyen
https://ann.earth
Sound editor: Joe Holtaway
https://joeholtaway.com
Publisher: Anca Rusu
Producer: Clay Carnill
https://claycarnill.com
Executive Producer: Catalin Zorzini

List of resources 

Interbeing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interbeing

Plum Village Tradition
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plum_Village_Tradition

Jeta Grove
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jetavana

Mangala Sutta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%E1%B9%85gala_Sutta

Avalokiteshvara
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avalokite%C5%9Bvara

Song: ‘No Coming, No Going’
https://plumvillage.org/library/songs/no-coming-no-going-song

Anathapindika
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anathapindika

Anuruddha
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anuruddha

Tathagata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tath%C4%81gata 

Shravasti 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shravasti

Sarnath
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarnath

Kushinagar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushinagar

Dharma Talks: ‘The Noble Eightfold Path’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/the-noble-eightfold-path

Anapanasati Sutta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80n%C4%81p%C4%81nasati_Sutta

Angulimala
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%E1%B9%85gulim%C4%81la

Dharma Talks: ‘Redefining the Four Noble Truths’
https://plumvillage.org/library/dharma-talks/redefining-the-four-noble-truths

Poem: ‘Please Call Me by My True Names’
https://www.parallax.org/mindfulnessbell/article/poem-please-call-me-by-my-true-names

Laurie Anderson
https://laurieanderson.com/

Quotes

“Some non-attachments are more painful than others.”

“Thay talked about the fact that we allow 20% attachment; that we need to recognize we’re living in this life. And that we need to honor our feelings and our emotions in the historical dimension, whilst also in the ultimate dimension.”

“We can have joy and sadness at the same time. They do not cancel each other out.”

“We can have a moment of happiness and a moment of deep sadness, and we can contain both emotions at the same time.”

“Because of the years of practice, when the difficult time comes we’re able to meet it with a degree of equanimity and understanding and not be dragged into a vortex of despair and depression. We are able to meet the moment.”

“The matter of birth and death is as serious as if your turban is on fire.”

“The art of life is increasingly bringing the ultimate and historical dimensions together and recognizing that they inter-are.”

“Thay once said that what we practice in Plum Village is insight-based stress reduction or insight-based transformation. And what he meant was that once we’ve had an insight, everything is different. We cannot unlearn something that we’ve learned. And so all of our practice is about developing mindfulness, concentration, which leads to insight that is really understanding.”

“There’s no point practicing if we don’t generate some insights.”

“The insight is not there to be endlessly repeated, the insight is there to encourage us to practice. It’s like an anchor that helps us to stay put, and then we work at it.”

“Peace in oneself, peace in the world.”

“Happiness rests within oneself.”

“If I want transformation outside, I need to do it inside. And my general upbringing has been to shift outside things outside – not to ignore the injustices outside, but to have the presence and then the wisdom of the community to act in a skillful way.”

“In Zen circles we say that practicing with your family is the highest practice, the deepest Zen practice. That’s when you find out how you are doing. Because our parents know us as that stroppy teenager or that difficult child. We can’t float in as a spiritual practitioner; they can see straight through that.”