Human Performance Outliers Podcast with Zach Bitter

Matt Fox joined me to chat about his interest in the marathon after coming from a National class middle distance background, his trajectory with content creation, the Chinese running shoe market, and his power weight ratio journey. 
Matt Fox: sweatelite.co | IG: @mattinglisfox
Episode Sponsors:
LMNT: drinkLMNT.com/HPO (free sample pack with purchase)

deltaG: deltagketones.com Code: BITTER20 (20% Off)

Kila Insoles: kilarun.com Code: BITTER ($50 Off)

Episode summary: Zach Bitter interviews Matt Fox (Sweat Elite)
Matt's background: Former Australian middle-distance runner who twice finished 5th at Olympic/World trials (consistent 1:48 800m). Felt he "failed" after never making a national team, which later fueled his curiosity about how better runners train.
How Sweat Elite started: After a failed Strava-like app, Matt launched a site interviewing pros. He later began filming elite workouts (inspired by old FloTrack videos), but it lost money due to last-minute travel costs and limited YouTube revenue. He recouped losses by documenting his own marathon builds.
Content landscape: Athletes now prefer posting their own journeys, making third-party workout videos harder. Influencers-as-coaches is a growing issue; both agree formal qualifications aren't required (many great coaches never had them), but buyers should do due diligence. Bad influencer coaches can still introduce people to the sport who later seek better help.
Creators they follow: Truett Haynes (humor + ambitious Olympic Trials goal despite current times being far off; recently hired Rory Linkletter). Also Eric Floberg (cinematography) and Rory Linkletter (authenticity, Canadian marathon record pursuit).
Weight/body composition debate: Matt accidentally got very lean (70 kg) for a 2:20 marathon, then gained 3–4 kg and plateaued at 2:23–2:24. After noticing he was much larger than the Japanese runners he raced with, he used carb-cycling (high carbs around key sessions, deficit on easy days) to drop back to ~69 kg and ran 2:18–2:19. He has since lost another ~12 kg.
He stresses this is highly individual and risky. Personality matters: people with OCD/obsessive tendencies are more likely to develop RED-S or eating disorders. He now studies nutrition to give safer guidance.

Examples cited: Josh Kerr's long-term leaning-out, George Cush dropping weight before winning Comrades, Ryan Hall hitting a point where further loss hurt performance.

Both emphasize timing (fuel hard sessions, restrict on recovery days), not living in a perpetual deficit, and resetting after races.

Chinese super shoes: Matt recently lab-tested 12 models from Anta, Li-Ning, 361°, Xtep, Dynafish, etc. Many perform comparably to Western shoes at half the price and often last longer. Notable mentions: Li-Ning Dragon Flight (79 g, technically illegal but extremely fast; a legal version is coming), Anta C10 (very similar to Puma Fast-R), Dynafish trainer (versatile, durable, sub-200 g).
Barriers in the U.S.: high tariffs, limited specialty-store distribution, and brands currently focused on the Chinese market. Anta and Li-Ning are expanding globally.

Matt's current status: Recovering from injury, posting daily on Instagram/Strava as Matt Fox. Targeting a 2:17 or faster at the Melbourne Marathon in two months.
Timestamps:
0:00:02 — Intro and welcome to the episode
0:00:45 — Matt shares his background and connection to the podcast
0:01:42 — Matt's unusual running journey and early Sweat Elite work
0:04:33 — Matt's competitive middle-distance background and Olympic trials attempts
0:05:50 — Stepping away from elite running and building Sweat Elite
0:07:19 — From a failed app to interviewing pro runners
0:09:06 — Building content, monetization challenges, and workout videos
0:13:10 — Athletes making their own content and the creator/brand shift
0:14:36 — Should influencers need qualifications to coach?
0:21:08 — Coaching credentials and the role of experience
0:22:34 — Content creators Matt is excited about
0:25:46 — Truett Haynes, Rory Linkletter, and the entertainment factor
0:31:34 — Transition to weight, performance, and body composition
0:33:19 — Matt's marathon progression and how weight loss affected performance
0:40:27 — The nuance of weight loss, RED-S, and individual differences
0:48:32 — Why the conversation is different for different runners
0:50:22 — Timing carbohydrates and avoiding energy deficiency
0:52:19 — George Kusche at Comrades
0:57:30 — Josh Kerr seemingly fully optimized
01:03:12 — Chinese running shoes and why they matter
01:06:12 — Jack Crago and testing Chinese shoe models
01:08:25 — Distribution, tariffs, and market access in the U.S.
01:13:02 — Shoe durability and foam life
01:15:28 — Lightest legal shoes and new tech from Chinese brands
01:17:42 — Anta, Puma, and the global shoe market
01:19:04 — Puma concept shoes and performance development
01:20:49 — Why Chinese brands are expanding more slowly in the West
01:22:12 — Matt's trip to China and how he got deeper into shoe tech
01:23:54 — Dynafish and ultra-light trainers
01:26:12 — Wrap-up, where to find Matt, and final thoughts

I reached the end of my journey with the blood clot I discovered at the end of June. I learned a lot through the process, along with information about my personal risk for blood clotting. I unpack all of that and share my return to training. 
Episode Sponsors:
LMNT: drinkLMNT.com/HPO (free sample pack with purchase)

deltaG: deltagketones.com Code: BITTER20 (20% Off)

Kila Insoles: kilarun.com Code: BITTER ($50 Off)

Podcast Details:
Support HPO: zachbitter.com/hposponsors

HPO Website: zachbitter.com/hpo 

Zach's Coaching: zachbitter.com/coaching

Zach's Journal: substack.com/@zachbitter

Find Zach: zachbitter.com | IG: @zachbitter | X: @zbitter | FB: Zach Bitter | Strava: Zach Bitter

Vic Johnson shares the practical limits of high-carb strategies, discusses how carbohydrate needs can exceed what the gut can absorb, especially under heat and high intensity. Vic shares typical successful ranges, why hotter races and faster pacing worsen digestion, and emphasizes consistent intake over large boluses that can trigger GI issues. They discuss individualizing targets for mid-pack runners, finding a personal carb "cap" in training then scaling back for race day, sex differences (body size, culture, psychology), links between GI issues and disordered eating, the role of day-to-day carb intake in building intestinal transporters, and practical choices between drink mix vs gels.
Vic Johnson: mountainsportsnutrition.com | IG: @mountain.sports.dietitian
Episode Sponsors:
LMNT: drinkLMNT.com/HPO (free sample pack with purchase)

deltaG: deltagketones.com Code: BITTER20 (20% Off)

True Nutrition: truenutrition.com/hpo Code: HPO (20% Off)

Podcast Details:
Support HPO: zachbitter.com/hposponsors

HPO Website: zachbitter.com/hpo 

Zach's Coaching: zachbitter.com/coaching

Zach's Journal: substack.com/@zachbitter

Find Zach: zachbitter.com | IG: @zachbitter | X: @zbitter | FB: Zach Bitter | Strava: Zach Bitter

Kilian Korth joined the show to have a discussion around ultrarunning's growing professionalization without sophisticated regulated drug testing, the limits and trade-offs of WADA/USADA-style regimes, and why "doping" as a blanket term obscures intent and severity. We unpack gray areas such as THC thresholds, TUE complexity for common medications, transparency vs backlash, influencer incentives, and the future pressure regenerative medicine and technology (e.g., super shoes) may place on sport rules.
Kilian: IG: @runtoughmindset | Substack: https://substack.com/@runtoughmindset
Sponsors:
LMNT: https://drinkLMNT.com/HPO (free sample pack with purchase)
deltaG: https://deltagketones.com Code: BITTER20 (20% Off)
True Nutrition: https://truenutrition.com/hpo Code: HPO (20% Off)
Episode Summary & Notes: Zach Bitter & Kilian Korth on PEDs, incentives, and doping in ultrarunning
Context & framing
Conversation is the third appearance by Kilian on Zach's podcast; shifts from traditional training/racing episodes toward current events in running.

Sparked by recent doping-related controversies (Cam Hanes / Sage Canaday online conflict, Mike McKnight's discussion of BPC-157 use on Hanes' podcast).

Both emphasize moving beyond narrow focus on specific peptides/cases to broader structural issues.

Activism, incentives & tribalism
Skepticism of modern activism: good causes often get distorted by perverse incentives (attention, platform growth, organizational self-preservation/mission creep).

Online environments (especially short-form social media) reward polarization over curiosity or truth-seeking.

Parallel drawn to low-carb diet advocacy: movement shifted from exploration of pros/cons toward dietary supremacy and identity attachment.

Both hosts value changing one's mind with new evidence and prefer evolving conversations over tribal "debates" aimed at winning.

Core problem in ultrarunning
Rapid professionalization and financial incentives exist, but sophisticated testing (especially out-of-competition) is essentially absent.

Honor-code system + high rewards creates conditions in which some athletes near the top are likely to use PEDs.

Contrast with Olympic sports (e.g., swimming) where positives occur even with lower financial stakes.

"Doping" is an unhelpful blanket term that equates intentional, high-impact cheating (e.g., EPO) with gray-area or accidental cases.

BPC-157 and gray areas
BPC-157 is an experimental peptide with very limited human data (one small study of 12 people among 36 total studies reviewed).

Anecdotally has been used for tendon/muscle healing; on the WADA banned list at all times (no TUE pathway currently).

Gray areas exist in WADA criteria themselves (performance enhancement potential, health risk, "spirit of the sport").

THC example: banned in-competition with a relatively high threshold; removed alcohol from the list is an example of changes over time.

Distinction between letter of the rules vs. moral/cosmic fairness; between intentional advantage-seeking and medical/recovery use.

Testing realities & practical challenges
Full USADA/WADA-style regimes require whereabouts reporting, out-of-competition testing, and significant lifestyle constraints (conflicts with the free-spirited, remote nature of trail/ultrarunning).

Even gold-standard systems have loopholes (missed whereabouts, remote camps, short-acting substances timed around sleep windows).

Half-measures are expensive, burdensome, and unlikely to deter determined cheaters.

Middle-of-pack and age-group athletes face different calculus; many use legitimate medications (inhalers, etc.) that may or may not require TUEs depending on type and dose/threshold.

Possible paths forward discussed
Transparency and honesty should be encouraged rather than punished (both hosts respect that Hanes and McKnight disclosed BPC-157 use).

Practical ideas:

Optional "non-competitive / open" checkbox so athletes using regulated substances can still participate without affecting results/records.

Tested vs. non-tested divisions (bodybuilding-style model).

More education needed around legitimate medical use (TUEs, Global DRO checks).

Focus should prioritize the small professional/elite tier where financial and competitive incentives are highest over age-group minutiae.

Future regenerative medicine and longevity interventions will force further adaptation; sport has already accepted large performance gains from technology (super shoes) more readily than internal/medical ones.

Influencers & broader culture
Influencer economy adds complexity: financial incentives to promote products or share experimental practices; difference between sharing personal experience vs. recommending use.

Transparency with clear caveats is preferred; pure anecdote-driven advice remains problematic.

Societal issues (tribalism, algorithmic incentives, low scientific literacy) make clean solutions difficult inside a small niche like ultrarunning.

Closing notes
Both stress nuance over black-and-white absolutism

Conversation aims to push the sport toward honest discussion of incentive structures rather than endless case-by-case outrage.

Kilian's Substack article ("The Run Tough Mindset") and upcoming documentary Forged in Failure are referenced as related material.

Josh Kerr shattered the mile World Record, running 3:42.66. Everett Smulders has run 3:58 in the mile, and follows the sport closely, so he joined me to discuss everything surrounding this historic day. We dive into what made this such a mainstream attention grabber, what made it stand out from similar accomplishments, and a variety of other topics. 
Everett: wesflytrained.club/apply? I IG: @coachsmulders









Episode Sponsors:
True Nutrition: truenutrition.com/hpo Code: HPO (20% Off)
ProBio: probionutrition.com/endurance Code: Endurance (20% Off)

LMNT: drinkLMNT.com/HPO (free sample pack with purchase)

deltaG: deltagketones.com Code: BITTER20 (20% Off)

Podcast Details:
Support HPO: zachbitter.com/hposponsors

HPO Website: zachbitter.com/hpo 

Zach's Coaching: zachbitter.com/coaching

Zach's Journal: substack.com/@zachbitter

Find Zach: zachbitter.com | IG: @zachbitter | X: @zbitter | FB: Zach Bitter | Strava: Zach Bitter