Sub Club by RevenueCat

On the podcast, I talk with Cem about the premium trap many apps fall into, why free trials work even for freemium products, and how ‘try for $0.00’ actually outperforms ‘try for free’.
Top Takeaways:
💡 Protect the free moat — always
 Short-term revenue tricks like paywalling free features make metrics spike — then stall. Sustainable freemium growth depends on preserving free value. It’s not just ethical; it’s strategic. Pulling back too much invites competitors to offer what you took away, weakening both your brand and your growth loop.

🧪 A/B test relentlessly — but know when to lead with intuition
 Testing is essential, but not infallible. With 400+ experiments running at once, you’ll often see trade-offs between revenue and user experience. The art of product management is knowing when to ignore short-term data and make the long-term call that preserves user trust and helps achieve strategic goals.

🔁 Freemium is a growth engine, not a trade-off
 Your free users aren’t freeloaders — they’re your marketing engine. When you improve the free experience, you strengthen organic growth through word of mouth. Growth slows when you nickel-and-dime; it compounds when you delight.

💰 Monetize with empathy, not extraction
 Introducing monetization requires a cultural shift. The key is measuring everything — retention, reviews, complaints per DAU — and optimizing for user experience, not just ARPU. Test cautiously, communicate transparently, and say no to anything that erodes trust.
🧠 Build for everyone, not a persona
 In large-scale apps, personas can be counterproductive. People learn, play, and engage for wildly different reasons. Designing for inclusivity and broad appeal helps scale from millions to billions of users without alienating key segments.

💡 Strategic and Creative Use of Ads
 Ads at Duolingo were introduced carefully with the goal of balancing monetization with a positive user experience. The focus is on surfacing ads at non-intrusive moments, such as after completing a lesson, and on carefully controlling ad content. Duolingo even partners with advertisers to integrate elements of Duolingo branding into third-party ads. 

About Cem Kansu:

🚀Chief Product Officer at Duolingo

📱 Cem Kansu is the former VP of Product at Duolingo, where he led the company’s monetization strategy, introducing ads and subscriptions that turned Duolingo into a sustainable business. With deep expertise in product development and user experience, he helped grow subscriptions to over 80% of revenue, while keeping the core product free and mission-driven.

👋 LinkedIn

Follow us on X: 
David Barnard - @drbarnard
Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Cem discusses balancing profitability with long-term goals
[0:36] Duolingo’s first monetization strategy: ads
[2:02] The pivot from crowdsourcing translations to new monetization models
[3:49] Streak repair as Duolingo’s first in-app purchase experiment
[5:43] Shifting company culture to embrace monetization
[7:20] The influence of investors on Duolingo’s monetization
[8:00] Introducing ads without harming user experience
[10:31] Handling user complaints and data-driven adjustments
[12:07] Ensuring ad quality through strict control
[13:53] Direct ad partnerships to improve user experience
[16:30] Ads vs subscription: monetization strategy decision
[18:43] The impact of free trials on subscription growth
[20:22] Evolution of Duolingo’s subscription offerings
[22:39] Adding features like offline learning and ad-free experiences
[24:22] Pivoting from separate apps to integrating topics in one
[26:43] Overcoming design challenges to fit new topics
[28:55] Duolingo’s competition with other screen time apps
[32:00] Leveraging AI to enhance the language learning experience
[35:18] The role of AI in Duolingo’s growth
[37:32] Balancing free vs paid features for growth
[40:24] Decisions on adding/removing premium features
[43:35] Lessons from the failed human tutor feature
[45:10] Challenges in scaling a large product like Duolingo
[47:12] Long-term growth focus and user base expansion
[49:30] Design, testing, and iteration at Duolingo
[54:10] Ongoing improvements in learning efficacy and retention
[57:15] Duolingo’s future plans and expansion goals

On the podcast, I talk with Jeff about Tinder's $50 million paywall win. Why now is such a great time to build apps, and how hard paywalls can mislead you about product-market fit.

Top Takeaways:

💡 Focus on Product-Market Fit First
 Before jumping into monetization, ensure your product truly resonates with users. Building a product that solves a real problem and captures genuine interest is the foundation for sustainable growth. Once you achieve product-market fit, monetization becomes a natural extension.

🛠 Monetization Strategies Are Evolving
 Founders are being pushed to monetize early, but the key is to test different models and find what works for your user base. Experimenting with subscription tiers and paywalls can unlock new revenue streams while preserving a great user experience. This flexibility is crucial in today’s competitive app landscape.
🚀 Experimentation is the Key to Success
 The most successful apps are built through continuous experimentation and iteration. Constantly testing new ideas—whether in pricing, features, or user engagement tactics—helps you learn and adapt quickly. Fail fast, adjust, and keep pushing forward.

📊 Data-Driven Decisions Over Gut Instincts
 Rely on data to make smarter decisions, especially when it comes to monetization and growth strategies. Properly instrumenting your app and analyzing user behavior gives you the insights needed to refine your approach. Data-driven decisions remove the guesswork and lead to more reliable outcomes.
💬 User Feedback Drives Innovation
 Your users are the best source of inspiration. Listening to their feedback and adjusting your app based on real-world experience will improve your product and increase retention. The more connected you are to your community, the more likely your app will evolve in the right direction.
🔑 The Importance of Sustainable Growth
 Building a successful app requires more than just an initial win. To scale sustainably, it’s essential to focus on long-term user value and avoid over-monetizing too early. By balancing user experience with growth strategies, you can achieve steady, lasting success.

About Jeff Morris:

🚀 Founder and General Partner at Chapter One.

📱 Jeff Morris is the former VP of Product at Tinder, where he played a key role in driving the app’s revenue and user growth. As a venture capitalist, Jeff invests in early-stage companies developing products that resonate deeply with users. His expertise spans product development, monetization strategies, and scaling businesses in competitive markets.

👋 LinkedIn

👋 Follow Jeff Morris on X - @jmj
Jeff’s “controversial” X post
🌎 The New Internet 

Follow us on X: 
David Barnard - @drbarnard
Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Jeff Morris’ background and expertise at Tinder
[2:20] Monetization vs. product building: A founder’s shift in focus
[4:53] Celebrating early revenue: Real or just hype?
[6:08] Freemium model: Boosting user engagement and retention
[9:01] Monetization strategies across app categories
[11:51] The venture landscape in 2025: Challenges & opportunities
[13:05] Why it’s still a great time to build mobile apps
[14:48] Creating a sustainable subscription model
[17:27] Early-stage AI startups: New monetization opportunities
[19:20] Tinder’s journey with pricing and packaging experiments
[22:02] The success of Tinder’s three-tier subscription model
[24:41] Balancing user experience with monetization
[26:45] The role of testing and iteration in revenue decisions
[29:40] Why revenue optimization needs constant attention
[31:53] The impact of paywall features on conversion
[33:54] The power of design in driving revenue and engagement
[36:21] The future of mobile and AI-native apps
[39:11] Scaling a mobile app in 2025: Key lessons for founders
[42:45] How funding partners shape your product vision
[44:21] The role of feedback loops in creative growth
[47:30] What Jeff would have done differently at Tinder
[50:11] Key takeaways from building and scaling a high-growth product
[54:45] User-centric design: Why monetization should never come first

On the podcast, I talk with Alper about the competitive advantage of ignoring (some) best practices, the risk of drawing false conclusions when researching competitor ads, and why poor metrics are just facts until proven problematic.

Top Takeaways:

📊 Challenge Best Practices
 Test what works for your app and market, even if it goes against common advice. Adapt best practices to your data and current stage.
💡 Facts vs. Problems
 Low trial conversions aren’t always a problem—sometimes they’re just a fact of your setup. Only treat them as a problem after you’ve tested and ruled out other factors.
🎯 Quality Over Quantity in Creative Testing
 It’s not about testing hundreds of creatives—it’s about testing fewer, but with stronger hypotheses. Focus on creative iterations that drive high success rates, not just metrics.
⚖️ Strategic Control of Spend
 Set guardrails and adjust bids based on performance. Test spend limits, but always maintain control over your budget and its allocation.
💬 Be Inspired
 Learn from competitors, but don’t mimic their exact strategies. Customize based on your own data and target audience.
🔍 Instrument Your Data Right
Accurate data is key. Whether it’s MMP, in-app analytics, or creative performance, ensure you interpret results accurately to drive better decisions and scale effectively.

About Alper Taner:
🚀 Head of Performance Marketing at a stealth-mode app studio.
📱 With over 10 years in mobile growth, Alper drives user acquisition and marketing tech strategies, managing 8-figure budgets. He’s known for challenging conventional marketing practices and leveraging data to fuel growth.
👋 LinkedIn

Follow us on X: 
David Barnard - @drbarnard
Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights: 
[0:00] Introduction to Alper Taner and his mobile growth expertise
[1:39] Why challenging best practices and testing your own data is crucial
[5:04] Poor metrics are facts, not problems
[8:10] Creative testing: Focus on quality and strong hypotheses, not just quantity
[12:00] Set spend guardrails and control budget allocation for better results
[15:30] Learn from competitors, but don’t copy their strategies blindly
[19:10] Accurate data is key: instrument it right for smarter decisions
[22:18] Small event mapping changes can lead to significant performance boosts
[27:00] Don’t shy away from unconventional strategies
[32:45] Iteration is key for creative optimization
[37:20] Manage budget thresholds in creative testing to avoid overspending
[41:00] Understand platform algorithms and guide them to work for you
[46:00] Use guardrails and budget caps to control spend while optimizing performance
[49:50] Balance risk and experimentation with data-backed decision-making
[54:05] Retention and user behavior drive long-term growth
[58:00] Key lessons from creative testing: Adjust based on results
[1:00:30] Mixing creativity with data is the key to optimized user acquisition

On the podcast, I talk with Greg about knowing when to pivot, why most consumer apps shouldn't raise VC, and why making free trials optional outperformed making them the default.
Top Takeaways:

📉 Know When to Pivot
 Wrangle struggled because it wasn’t solving a real problem. Burner succeeded because it met a clear need. Don’t be afraid to pivot when the product isn’t working.

💭Most Consumer Apps Don’t Need VC
Venture capital can be a blessing but also a curse. If you attract investment that doesn’t line up with your product vision or culture, the cash injection can turn out to be a costly mistake. Building a business that pays for itself is a better fit for most founders.  
🔑 Focus on Retention
 Success is about keeping users, not just acquiring them. Burner’s ability to retain users, even short-term ones, proved its value. If users keep coming back, you’ve found something meaningful.

🛠 Trials, Errors, Wins
Testing was crucial to Burner’s growth. Every experiment was a learning opportunity. Don’t guess—test continuously, especially pricing, to find what drives retention and revenue.
🎯 Small Changes, Big Results
 Minor tweaks, like switching to a free trial, led to significant growth. Optimize for retention with quick, simple changes. Even minor adjustments can have a substantial impact on results.

About Greg Cohn: 
🛫 Founder and CEO of Ad Hoc Labs

📱 Greg Cohn is the founder of Burner, the leading mobile app for managing personal privacy through disposable phone numbers. With a passion for solving real-world problems, Greg transitioned from an early startup failure to building a successful business that prioritizes user privacy, simplicity, and seamless functionality.
👋 LinkedIn
💬 Text Greg’s Burner: (323) 579-1830
🧑‍💻 Open Roles at Ad Hoc Labs (Mention “Sub Club” to get a closer look at your resume.)
Follow us on X: 
David Barnard - @drbarnard
Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights:
[0:00] The concept behind Wrangle, Greg’s first app
[1:39] Twilio’s role in developing Wrangle and early challenges
[3:24] Burner’s breakthrough with the “burner” feature for privacy
[9:42] Wrangle’s pivot and what went wrong
[13:36] Moving from paid downloads to a subscription model for Burner
[24:47] Importance of user feedback in shaping the Burner product
[33:24] The credit system and why it transitioned to subscriptions
[38:55] Why retention and cohort analysis are key to Burner’s success
[44:29] How Burner integrates new features like VPN for growth
[54:33] Premium tier features: phone number lookup becomes popular
[1:02:18] Bundling products: the decision to expand Burner’s offerings
[1:09:53] Greg’s thoughts on acquiring apps vs building new features
[1:23:38] Win of the year: faster paywall testing speed for Burner

On the podcast we talk with Ravi about subscriptions as a force multiplier for consumables, why narratives matter more than metrics in goal-setting, and why you might want to try a longer onboarding, or a shorter one.
📊 Stack the demand curve
Tinder didn’t just offer one price—it built a staircase of value. Low-tier subs, premium upgrades, and microtransactions filled in the gaps of user willingness to pay. The result? More people paid something, and some paid a lot. Don’t pick one price point. Map the whole curve.
 🎯 Create value before monetization
The fastest way to expand your TAM? Get users to the “aha” moment faster. Tinder made onboarding nearly instant to tap into a new, younger audience. In contrast, Sesame Care increased conversions with a 25-step flow by increasing user confidence. Friction isn’t the enemy—poor timing is.

💰 Free is a monetization strategy
At Tinder, 85–90% of users never paid. But their presence was the product—fueling demand and justifying spend for the other 10–15%. Don’t underestimate free users. Sometimes, they’re the reason someone else is willing to pay.
🧪 Price is product
Tinder didn’t guess what users would pay. It ran hundreds of localized price tests across SKUs to learn what users valued. Pricing isn’t a spreadsheet exercise—it’s part of the product experience and should be tested like one.

📐 Narrative beats metrics
OKRs fail when they skip the why. Ravi’s NCTs framework, which stands for Narratives, Commitments, Tasks, anchors goals in story and context. If your team is hitting the numbers but drifting on focus, it’s probably time to start with the story—not the spreadsheet.

🪞 Monetization reveals product market fit
Most apps undercharge. A scanner app might seem basic, but if it powers daily workflows, it’s worth real money. Set your price high enough to test willingness, not just conversion. If no one bites, you don’t have a monetization problem—you have a product one.

About Ravi Mehta:
🔥 Former Chief Product Officer at Tinder and product leader at Meta, TripAdvisor, and Microsoft.

📈 Ravi helps companies turn behavioral insights into scalable monetization systems — from multi-tier subscriptions to habit-forming onboarding flows.

🗣 “If you have a product that’s solving an important need for someone, there’s a system around that that fits into the problem you’re solving, and you should think about the value of that system rather than just the price.”

👋 LinkedIn

Follow us on X: 
David Barnard - @drbarnard
Jacob Eiting - @jeiting
RevenueCat - @RevenueCat
SubClub - @SubClubHQ

Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Subscriptions as a force multiplier for consumables
[3:03] Filling the demand curve with tiers and microtransactions
[6:47] Why free-to-play was Tinder’s breakthrough innovation
[10:26] Matching monetization to different user behaviors
[13:09] Creating value for whales without breaking the game
[17:22] Experimenting your way into the perfect pricing model
[20:03] When free, trial, or paid onboarding makes the most sense
[23:47] Why apps are undermonetized and how to fix it
[28:43] Why a longer onboarding boosted conversion 40%
[35:20] How shorter onboarding expanded Tinder’s total market
[43:03] Narratives, commitments, and tasks: a better goal framework
[01:02:49] Growth is easier when you own your audience