Coaching for Leaders

Academy alum Bill Mayo joins Dave to share how he improved his listening skills — both at work and at home.

Applications to the Coaching for Leaders Academy will be open March 13th – March 20th. To receive an early invitation or to apply, visit the Coaching for Leaders Academy page.

Rebecca Hinds: Your Best Meeting Ever

Rebecca Hinds is a leading expert on organizational behavior and the future of work. She founded and led the Work Innovation Lab at Asana and the Work AI Institute at Glean, where she partners with leading experts to help organizations transform their work with AI. She is the author of Your Best Meeting Ever: 7 Principles for Designing Meetings That Get Things Done (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

Considering the amount of time we all spend in meetings, it’s odd that most organizations do so little to measure meeting results. If that’s sounding familiar, this conversation between Rebecca and me will show you exactly how to get started.

Key Points

Metrics that only measure the costs of meetings (dollars and time) can be useful, but rarely capture the full picture.

Use Return on Time Invested (ROTI) anonymously to survey attendees to determine if a meeting was a good use of time. Also ask, “What would it take for you to improve your rating by one point?”

Survey sparingly to avoid survey fatigue. Bringing in a survey 10% of the time is a benchmark to start from.

If the amount of time in meetings vastly exceeds 10 hours a week, there’s likely an opportunity to scale back or redefine the work before or after meetings to use time better.

Equal speaking time in meetings is a key indicator of team performance. Be transparent with employees about any technology you use to capture data.

Punctuality and attendance rate are indicators of how valued meetings are for people.

Resources Mentioned

Your Best Meeting Ever: 7 Principles for Designing Meetings That Get Things Done by Rebecca Hinds (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

How to Lead Meetings That Get Results, with Mamie Kanfer Stewart (episode 358)

Moving Towards Meetings of Significance, with Seth Godin (episode 632)

How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Lily Zheng, Fixing Fairness

Lily Zheng is a sought-after speaker, strategist, and organizational consultant who specializes in hands-on systemic change to turn positive intentions into positive outcomes for workplaces and everyone in them. A dedicated changemaker and advocate, Lily has had their work published in the Harvard Business Review, New York Times, and NPR. They are the author of Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

When it comes to fairness in the workplace, our society is quick to zero in on what divides us. Yet, there is broad agreement across all demographics on many key principles. In this conversation, Lily and I explore how leaders can influence the system to better work for everyone.

Key Points

Many of us assume that fewer people support the value of diversity than actually do. When asked, 82% of people support pro-diversity statements.

The most popular/traditional approaches to fixing fairness in the workplace tend to be the least effective.

Our tendency is to focus on the behavior of individuals, when in fact organizational systems have the most significant impact on fairness.

When considering a fairness initiative or intervention, begin with the practice of understanding and storytelling, just like many change initiatives.

Resist the temptation to check boxes with “quick fixes” such as simply bringing in a speaker or hosting a one-time event. This rarely helps in any sustainable way and sometimes worsens existing dynamics.

If you have a seat at the leadership table, make the case for thoughtful design and involvement of stakeholders at all points in the process, just as many effective organizations do on any strategic change initiative.

Resources Mentioned

Fixing Fairness: 4 Tenets to Transform Diversity Backlash into Progress for All by Lily Zheng (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

Supporting Return to Work After Maternity Leave, with Danna Greenberg (episode 639)

The Power of Unlearning Silence, with Elaine Lin Hering (episode 678)

How to Lead a Meaningful Cultural Shift, with David Hutchens (episode 755)

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Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Phil Gilbert: Irresistible Change

Phil Gilbert is best known for leading IBM’s 21st-century transformation as their General Manager of Design. The transformation became the subject of a Harvard Business School case study, the documentary film The Loop, and feature articles in the New York Times and Fortune Magazine. He is the author of Irresistible Change: A Blueprint for Earning Buy-In and Breakout Success (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

We’ve all been through mandated change initiatives more times than we can count. But what if change wasn’t a mandate, but an offer – or even an invitation? In this conversation, Phil and I explore how to make change irresistible.

Key Points

Change should be regarded as a high-value-add product.

Don’t mandate change. Offer change.

Your goal is sustained cultural adoption, not improving immediate competency.

Start small, but cover all your bases on a reduced scale. Make a great cupcake instead of a mediocre wedding cake.

People buy brands, not products. Branding change allows you to define the values and message that goes with it.

Resources Mentioned

Irresistible Change: A Blueprint for Earning Buy-In and Breakout Success by Phil Gilbert (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

Engaging People Through Change, with Cassandra Worthy (episode 571)

Where Senior Leaders Can Better Support Middle Managers, with Emily Field (episode 650)

How to Lead Organizational Change, with Michael Bungay Stanier (episode 740)

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Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.

Charles Duhigg: Supercommunicators

Charles Duhigg is a Pulitzer Prize–winning investigative journalist and the author of The Power of Habit and Smarter Faster Better. He is a winner of the National Academies of Sciences, National Journalism, and George Polk awards. He writes for The New Yorker and other publications and is the author of Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection (Amazon, Bookshop)*.

A lot of us grew up in a world where most of our relationships started in person. That means many of us are beautifully equipped for a world that no longer exists. In this conversation, Charles and I discuss how to get better at connecting in a remote-first world.

Key Points

When the telephone first became popular, people had to learn how to communicate with it. We’re at a similar inflection point with digital communication.

We all have three kinds of conversations: (1) What’s this really about? (practical/decision-making), (2) How do we feel? (emotional), and (3) Who are we? (identity).

Many of us tend to default to practical/decision-making conversations online and miss conversations about emotion and identity.

Ask questions that invite an emotional or identity response. Instead of, “Where do you live?” consider a shift like, “What do you love about where you live?”

Notice when people bring elements into a conversation that aren’t related to the topic. These clues, especially online, can point to entry points for emotional connection.

Supercommunicators pay just a bit more attention to how people communicate than the rest of us. A slight shift can make a big difference.

Resources Mentioned

Supercommunicators: How to Unlock the Secret Language of Connection by Charles Duhigg (Amazon, Bookshop)*

Interview Notes

Download my interview notes in PDF format (free membership required).

Related Episodes

The Way to Get People Talking, with Andrew Warner (episode 560)

How to Lead Engaging Meetings, with Jess Britt (episode 721)

How to Show Up Authentically in Tough Situations, with Andrew Brodsky (episode 727)

Discover More

Activate your free membership for full access to the entire library of interviews since 2011, searchable by topic. To accelerate your learning, uncover more inside Coaching for Leaders Plus.