The Product Manager

AI can solve Olympic-level math problems... and still fumble basic arithmetic. So what gives? According to Dhruv Batra, the answer lies in the “jaggedness” of intelligence—how AI can excel in some areas while completely breaking down in others. Dhruv, co-founder and Chief Scientist at Yutori, joins Hannah Clark to unpack the cognitive dissonance users feel when a model dazzles one moment and disappoints the next.They explore how user expectations—shaped by decades of intuitive UI patterns and human conversations—often collide with the underlying limits of AI systems. From browser agents and automation to long-term feedback loops and trust-building, this conversation is a candid look at what today’s AI can actually do (and where it’s still bluffing). If you’re building with AI or trying to scope what’s possible, this one will recalibrate your expectations—in a good way.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletterConnect with Dhruv on LinkedInCheck out Dhruv’s website and Yutori

There’s a lot of smoke and mirrors in product right now—especially when it comes to AI. Shiny tools and slick prototypes are masquerading as production-ready solutions, and teams are feeling the pressure to keep up. But what happens when the hype outpaces the fundamentals?Hannah sits down with Matt Graney, CPO of Celigo, to talk about bad product plays in disguise—from vibe coding and no-code illusions to AI-fueled shortcuts that chip away at real product rigor. With decades in B2B product and a track record scaling teams, Matt offers a sharp, grounded view on what’s actually changing, what’s staying the same, and how to keep your product sense intact through it all.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletterConnect with Matt on LinkedInCheck out Celigo

Every product team faces the same monster: conversion optimization. But in 2025, the game has changed. With AI agents influencing discovery and AEO (Answer Engine Optimization) reshaping how people (and machines) interpret messaging, teams are now marketing to both human and agentic audiences.In this episode, Hannah Clark sits down with Chris Silvestri, founder of Conversion Alchemy, to unpack how product teams can use psychology and UX insights to craft messaging that drives both adoption and retention. A former software engineer turned conversion strategist, Chris explains how understanding human decision-making—and now machine reasoning—can help product leaders turn features into irresistible outcomes.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletterConnect with Chris on LinkedInCheck out Conversion Alchemy

Every product manager obsesses over leadership styles, onboarding flows, and GTM strategies—but what if the biggest differentiator of success comes down to something much simpler? Learning. In this episode, Hannah Clark sits down with Maxine Anderson, Co-Founder and CPO of Arist, a text-based learning platform that flips traditional corporate education on its head.Maxine started her career in rural Oregon classrooms, where she saw firsthand how inaccessible and ineffective most learning environments were. That experience sparked the idea behind Arist: meeting people where they already are, through tools like SMS, Slack, and Teams. What follows is a candid conversation about why more content doesn’t equal more learning, the real barriers that keep employees from growing, and how AI is reshaping not just education—but how organizations function.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletterConnect with Maxine on LinkedInCheck out Arist

Every product leader wrestles with the same tradeoff: move fast and risk breaking things, or move slow and risk irrelevance. But what if the real accelerator wasn’t cutting corners—it was systematizing experimentation? In this episode, Hannah Clark sits down with Jean Castanon, VP of Digital Product at American Express, to explore how his team quadrupled their testing velocity in a year, redefined what “success” in experiments really means, and built a referral program that became Amex’s second-largest global acquisition channel.Jean brings over a decade of experience at Amex across strategy, marketing, and digital, and he shares how his team balances speed, scale, and sustainability in product strategy. From building experimentation muscle to future-proofing digital storefronts, this conversation is packed with lessons for product leaders at every stage.Resources from this episode:Subscribe to The CPO Club newsletterConnect with Jean on LinkedInCheck out American Express