How I Built This with Guy Raz

Tom Rinks got his start in the commission-only "shark tank" of midwestern furniture sales. That’s where he learned what makes customers buy. Decades later, those instincts helped him grow a joke of a side hustle into a $400 million success.
In 2009, he created the iconic branding for an obscure sun tan lotion, drawing on a mish-mash of surf culture, Scandinavian furniture, and Japanese streetwear. Sun Bum became a huge success, but even before that, Tom helped boost a wildly diverse range of brands: a line of tequila, a series of Christian videos, and the ubiquitous “Yo quiero Taco Bell” campaign. All were successful, though it took a prolonged legal battle for Tom to get paid for the Taco Bell chihuahua.
In this episode, Tom reveals how he learned to manipulate consumer psychology, survive the brutal warfare of a stolen idea, and engineer a brand explosion on his own terms.

WHAT YOU'LL LEARN
Chihuahuas and Apes: How the Right Mascot can Transform a Brand
What it takes to survive a five-year legal battle against a corporate titan.
The "Elvis Principle:” How combining unexpected design elements can create an unforgettable package
The "Trojan Horse" Strategy: Why forcing retailers to buy a massive display creates the illusion of a brand overnight.

TIMESTAMPS
08:15 - What selling furniture taught Tom about customer psychology
10:00 - How the Slogan “Surf Michigan” got him into the T-shirt Business
25:07 - Psycho Chihuahua, Taco Bell, and the Branding Deal that Wasn’t
33:49 - Inside the grueling battle over a chihuahua mascot. “I was the guy suing Taco Bell.”
39:35 - A dramatic legal verdict, and Tom’s branding business takes off with fancy Tequila
49:47 - The sun screen opportunity: “I saw a gigantic hole that you could drive through.”
55:03 - How Tom and his partner came up with their “badass ape” logo
1:07:36 - Opening (fake) Sun Bum headquarters in Cocoa Beach, Fla
1:10:31- Early store displays and making the brand seem bigger than it was
1:14:56 - A $400M sale to SC Johnson, and Tom starts a new company

This episode was researched by Katherine Sypher and Susannah Broun and produced by Casey Herman, with music by Ramtin Arablouei, and edited by Neva Grant.

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Jeni’s Splendid Ice Creams founder Jeni Britton joins Guy on the Advice Line to answer questions from three early-stage entrepreneurs. Plus, how Jeni’s newest venture Floura is tackling one of America’s largest dietary needs—fiber.
First, we meet Jesse in Washington, D.C., who’s wondering how to best focus marketing efforts for his frozen french fry company. Then Casey from Boston, who's questioning the pressure she's feeling to pursue outside capital for her frozen pierogi brand. And finally, Callie from Los Angeles asks about the pros and cons of contracting a PR firm to promote her purple sweet potato pet treats.
Thank you to the founders of Jesse & Ben’s, Jaju Pierogi and Ubae.co for being a part of our show.
If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode, leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to hibt@id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298.
And be sure to listen to Jeni’s Splendid Ice Creams’ founding story as told by Jeni on the show in 2018.
This episode was produced by Katherine Sypher with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Neal Rauch.
You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com and on Substack.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Krishna Kaliannan wanted to start a tech company but failed at every attempt.

On the side, he was teaching himself how to cook with high-protein, low-sugar ingredients. Not just out of interest, but out of necessity. As a teenager, Krishna had been diagnosed with diabetes and epilepsy, meaning he adopted a keto diet long before it was trendy.

Krishna’s home experiments with pea powder and monk fruit eventually became Catalina Crunch, one of the country’s most popular high-protein, low-carb breakfast cereals and snacks.

In this episode, Krishna shares how a life-changing health condition sparked an obsession with healthy baking— and a brand that reimagined snacking.

What You’ll Learn
How to turn a health challenge into a business opportunity
The art and science of baking with esoteric ingredients
When to trust partners and when it’s best to take charge yourself
Why the DTC model is great for some industries and disastrous for others

Timestamps:
00:06:16 - Dealing with diabetes and epilepsy as a college student
00:12:38 - What Krishna learns from his early failures in tech
00:22:43 - The first, low-sugar cocoa puffs: “Rocks that tasted like soil.”
00:27:36 - His homemade cereal gets good enough to sell
00:32:42 - Naming the brand: classy alliteration and a nod to a Will Ferrell movie
00:44:51 - Learning to make cereal like the pros at Texas A&M
00:54:43 - Krishna moves from NYC to Indiana to make sure the cereal is made right
01:01:04 - Whole Foods, Costco, and becoming a household brand

This episode was researched and produced by Chris Maccini with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Neva Grant. Our engineer was Kwesi Lee.

Follow How I Built This:
Instagram → @howibuiltthis
X → @HowIBuiltThis
Facebook → How I Built This

Follow Guy Raz:
Instagram → @guy.raz
Youtube → guy_raz
X → @guyraz
Substack → guyraz.substack.com
Website → guyraz.com

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Today’s callers: Ann from Nashville asks how to adapt her jewelry business in the face of rising gold prices. Then Felix in Martha’s Vineyard considers strategies for growing his family’s legacy honey and skincare company. Finally, Matt in Massachusetts seeks strategies for maintaining a healthy work-life balance at his grief-inspired brewing project.
Plus, Ronnen and Guy discuss why your 20s are the best time to start a business.
Thank you to the founders of Yearly Company, Island Bee Company and Wandering Soul Beer for joining us on the show.
If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode—where Guy and former show guests take questions from early-stage founders—leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to hibt@id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298.
And be sure to listen to Spin Master and PAW Patrol’s founding story as told by Ronnen on the show in 2021.
This episode was produced by Katherine Sypher with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Cena Loffredo.
You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com and on Substack.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

In 2004, Joey Shamah and his partner launched a cosmetics company built on an idea that made almost no sense:
Sell high-quality makeup for just $1.
At the time, high quality beauty products were supposed to be expensive. The biggest brands spent fortunes on celebrity endorsements, glossy ads, and premium shelf space.
And every major retailer told Joey the same thing:
Your idea will never work.
But Joey believed he'd found a wormhole in the beauty business: spend money on the product, not fancy packaging, marketing, or celebrity endorsements. Then, pass those savings on to your customers.
The brand grew slowly, but Joey knew he was onto something when a bizarre rumor spread that Bloomingdale's was buying e.l.f. and raising prices. Within days, the tiny company went from a few hundred orders a week to 18,000 orders a day.
What followed was a journey from a scrappy warehouse operation in New Jersey to one of the most disruptive brands in the beauty business.

You'll learn:
The surprising economics behind $1 lipstick
Why retailers initially rejected e.l.f.
How a single magazine mention launched e.l.f.'s online business
The retail insight that unlocked national expansion
How a false rumor generated 18,000 orders a day
The emotional toll of a $225 million acquisition that collapsed at the eleventh hour

Timestamps:
00:10:28 — How to make (decent) makeup for just $1
00:18:35 — The dollar stores say no
00:24:32 — Glamour comes calling, and e.l.f has 30 days to build a website
00:38:27 — The question from a Target buyer that leaves Joey speechless
00:39:56 — The H-E-B test that proves everyone wrong
00:46:36 — “That’s news to me!” The viral rumor that sends Joey back to China
00:59:42 — Scaling to tens of millions in revenue
01:07:15 — “It was crushing.” The L’oreal sale that never happened
01:12:02 — After e.l.f: Joey stops watching House of Cards and gets back to business

This episode was produced by Carla Esteves with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei.
It was edited by Neva Grant with research by Olivia Rockman. Our audio engineer was Patrick Murray.

Follow How I Built This:
Instagram → @howibuiltthis
X → @HowIBuiltThis
Facebook → How I Built This
Follow Guy Raz:
Instagram → @guy.raz
Youtube → guy_raz
X → @guyraz
Substack → guyraz.substack.com
Website → guyraz.com
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.