Scaling Theory

• #24 – Robin Hanson: Scaling Futarchy

  Welcome back to Scaling Theory. My guest today is Robin Hanson, Associate Professor of economics at George Mason University. Robin has long been one of the most original thinkers on institutional design, collective intelligence, as explored in his books The Age of Em and The Elephant in the Brain. Across his career, he has pushed the boundaries of how societies can aggregate knowledge and make collective decisions when complexity scales faster than comprehension.In this episode, Robin and I discuss how futarchy could scale that logic across our societies? As societies grow larger, representation, information, and incentives all begin to break down, and futarchy is one possible way to rebuild them. Robin and I talk about where this idea has been tested so far, what a real-world implementation might look like in a city or company, and why, despite its promise, futarchy hasn’t yet scaled.Finally, we explore how new technologies like blockchain and AI might change the picture, whether they’ll make futarchy more viable, or perhaps even replace parts of it. And we look ahead to Robin’s vision from The Age of Em. When societies become unimaginably fast and complex, which human institutions survive, and which ones don’t?You can follow me on X (@⁠⁠ProfSchrepel⁠⁠) and BlueSky (@⁠⁠ProfSchrepel⁠⁠).

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• #23 – Thibault Schrepel: Adaptive Regulation

  This is the first solo episode of Scaling Theory, where I take a deep dive into the literature. Building on a working paper titled “Adaptive Regulation,” I explore why “future-proof” laws so often fail in the face of rapid technological change, and how complexity science can guide us toward rules that adapt to the things they regulate. Drawing on recent EU digital acts and voices from law, economics, and complexity theory, I sketch the contours of a regulatory system that scales.You can follow me on X (@⁠⁠ProfSchrepel⁠⁠) and BlueSky (@⁠⁠ProfSchrepel⁠⁠).References:Schrepel, T., Adaptive Regulation (2025) https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5416454Ranchordás, S., & Van‘t Schip, M. (2020). Future-Proofing Legislation for the Digital Age. In Time, Law, and Change: An Interdisciplinary Study.Colomo, P. I. (2022). Future-Proof Regulation against the Test of Time: The Evolution of European Telecommunications Regulation. Oxford Journal of Legal Studies, 42(4).Chander, A. (2017). Future-proofing law. UC Davis Law Review.Powell, W. W., & Snellman, K. (2004). The Knowledge Economy. Annual Review of Sociology, 30.Perez, C. (2009). The Double Bubble at the Turn of the Century: Technological Roots and Structural Implications. Cambridge Journal of Economics, 33(4), 779–805.Allen, D. W., Berg, C., & Potts, J. (2025). Institutional Acceleration: The Consequences of Technological Change in a Digital Economy. Cambridge University Press.Colander, D., Holt, R. P. F., & Rosser, J. B. (2004). The Changing Face of Mainstream Economics. Review of Political Economy, 16(4).Arthur, W. B. (2009). The Nature of Technology: What It Is and How It Evolves. New York: Free Press.Buchanan, J. M., & Tullock, G. (1962). The Calculus of Consent: Logical Foundations of Constitutional Democracy. University of Michigan Press.Sowell, T. (2007). A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles.West, G. (2017). Scale: The Universal Laws of Growth, Innovation, Sustainability, and the Pace of Life in Organisms, Cities, Economies, and Companies. Penguin Press.

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• #22 – Vint Cerf: How Internet Scaled

  My guest today is Vinton G. Cerf, widely regarded as a “father of the Internet.” In the 1970s, Vint co-developed the TCP/IP protocols that define how data is formatted, transmitted, and received across devices. In essence, his work enabled networks to communicate, thus laying the foundation for the Internet as a unified global system. He has received honorary degrees and awards that include the National Medal of Technology, the Turing Award, the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the Marconi Prize, and membership in the National Academy of Engineering. He is currently Chief Internet Evangelist at Google.In this episode, Vint reflects on the Internet’s path from ARPANET and TCP/IP to the scaling choices that made global connectivity possible. He explains why decentralization was key, and how fiber optics and data centers underwrote explosive growth. Vint also addresses today’s policy anxieties (fragmentation, sovereignty walls, and fragile infrastructures…) before looking upward to the interplanetary Internet now linking spacecraft. Finally, we turn to AI: how LLMs are reshaping learning and software, and why the next leap may be systems that question us back. I hope you enjoy our discussion.You can follow me on X (@⁠ProfSchrepel⁠) and BlueSky (@⁠ProfSchrepel⁠).

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• #21 – Melanie Moses: From Cells to Algorithms

  My guest today is Melanie Moses, a Professor of Computer Science at the University of New Mexico, an External Faculty at the Santa Fe Institute, and Chair of the New Mexico AI Consortium. Melanie's work spans a wide range of disciplines all unified by her deep understanding of complexity theory.In our conversation, Melanie and I explore how scaling theory reveals surprising patterns across nature, technology, and society. We discuss what decentralized systems like ant colonies can teach us about building more robust AI, and what the immune system tells us about information networks. We also delve into the costs of building scalable infrastructure, and why we might need new approaches to governance that can scale with our global challenges. Finally, we explore whether there could ever be a universal scaling law and what young researchers should know about pursuing interdisciplinary paths. I hope you enjoy our discussion.You can follow me on X (@⁠ProfSchrepel⁠) and BlueSky (@⁠ProfSchrepel⁠).References:Melanie Moses’ Biological Computation Lab https://moseslab.cs.unm.eduMetabolic Scaling From Individuals to Societies (PhD, 1993) https://www.unm.edu/~melaniem/DISSERTATION_MEM.pdfCities as Organisms: Allometric Scaling of Urban Road Networks (2008) https://www.jtlu.org/index.php/jtlu/article/view/29Biologically inspired design principles for Scalable, Robust, Adaptive, Decentralized search and automated response (RADAR) (2011) https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5954663

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• #20 – Melanie Mitchell: The Science of Artificial Thinking

  My guest today is Melanie Mitchell, a Professor at the Santa Fe Institute, author of "Complexity: A Guided Tour" and "Artificial Intelligence: A Guide for Thinking Humans." Melanie studied under the legendary John Holland and has become one of the leading voices bridging complexity science with research in artificial intelligence.In our conversation, Melanie and I explore the fundamental nature of intelligence and why today's AI systems might not be as intelligent as they appear. We discuss the persistent misunderstandings around modern AI, the concept of "jagged intelligence," and why the Turing Test is misleading us. We also talk about embodiment, metacognition, and how complexity science principles like emergence could reshape our approach to building truly intelligent machines. Finally, we delve into what biology can teach us about creating more sustainable and genuinely intelligent artificial systems. I hope you enjoy our discussion.You can follow me on X (@⁠ProfSchrepel⁠) and BlueSky (@⁠ProfSchrepel⁠).

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