Mixed Signals from Semafor Media

Stephen Dubner has spent 20 years proving that things aren't what they seem—and now he's not so sure that's always true. The co-creator of Freakonomics and host of one of podcasting's most enduring shows joins Ben and Max to talk about why he never sold to Spotify, how The New York Times shifted from telling readers things to telling them what to think, and his new self-funded TV experiment that's "like laundering podcast money." Along the way, Dubner explains how he accidentally got sucked into the Blake Lively-Justin Baldoni gossip vortex (Candace Owens was involved), makes the case for prediction markets over pundits, and reveals why he's now considering buying a pizza place with a Michelin-starred chef who hated his soup. Plus: the real reason insider trading bans are absurd, and why Mario Cuomo was wrong about vowels.

Sarah Rogers, the State Department’s undersecretary for public diplomacy, joins Mixed Signals for a wide-ranging conversation about free speech, tech regulation, and why she’s been rattling the patience of some European governments. Max and Ben press her on confronting Europe over X, the Digital Services Act, and online speech — including accusations that she’s carrying water for Elon Musk and the far right. Rogers traces her worldview back to the early internet, Gawker comment sections, and First Amendment litigation, and explains why she sees today’s speech rules as potentially dangerous.And, don’t miss this week’s bonus episode of Mixed Signals: Max turns the tables on Ben and brings on Semafor CEO Justin Smith to ask the two about their big media news.

Semafor CEO Justin Smith joins Mixed Signals for a candid discussion about why the digital media company raised $30 million late last year, and how it reached profitability in just three years.

Max asks Justin and Semafor editor-in-chief Ben Smith about the company’s $330 valuation, the company’s planned investment in the Gulf and East Asia, and what it takes to build a modern media company in 2026.

Justin and Ben reflect on lessons from earlier eras of digital media, and the triumphs and mistakes Semafor made in its first three years.

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Media veteran Ryan Lizza joins Mixed Signals for a raw, sprawling conversation about why he chose to publish an eight-part (and counting) Substack series responding to the most personal and public crisis of his career. Max and Ben press him on whether this was ever just a breakup story, why he believes the real scandal involves RFK Jr. and journalistic failures, and how Substack gave him the only viable way to tell the story in the first place. Lizza reflects on leaving Politico, burning bridges with legacy outlets, the cost of going public, and what this episode taught him about our changing media landscape.

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For more from Think with Google, check out ThinkwithGoogle.com.

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Shark Tank’s Kevin O’Leary joins Mixed Signals to talk about his buzzy turn as a ruthless tycoon in Marty Supreme — and how it felt playing a fictionalized version of himself. Max and Ben dig into what lessons he took from working with Josh Safdie and Timothee Chalamet, why Mark Cuban isn’t on Shark Tank anymore, and why he believes movie theaters aren’t going anywhere. They also talk about O’Leary’s media omnipresence, how his defense of Trump helped him influence the Republican tax bill, what he told  Zohran Mamdani when they met in New York, and why he thinks respect is more valuable than being liked.

Sign up for Semafor Media’s Sunday newsletter: https://www.semafor.com/newsletters/media 

For more from Think with Google, check out ThinkwithGoogle.com.

Find us on X: @semaforben, @maxwelltaniIf you have a tip or a comment, please email us [email protected]