Democracy Paradox

You can only get to the point of restoring democratic institutions if you win the last election with such a huge majority that you really have the public with you as you make radical change.
Kim Lane Scheppele
 Kim Lane Scheppele is the Laurance S. Rockefeller Professor of Sociology and International Affairs in the Princeton School of Public and International Affairs and the University Center for Human Values at Princeton University. Some of her articles include “Autocratic Legalism”, “The Rule of Law and the Frankenstate: Why Government Checklists Do Not Work”, “How Viktor Orbán Wins," and most recently “Can Péter Magyar Restore Hungary's Democracy?” 
 The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. 
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
Introduction - 0:20
Magyar's Playbook - 3:24
A Party Without a Party - 18:26
Breaking the Rules to Save Democracy - 30:48
Looking to the Future Instead of History - 44:29
Links
Learn more about Kim Lane Scheppele
Read her Journal of Democracy article “Can Péter Magyar Restore Hungary's Democracy?”
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.com
Support the show

The question is not whether polarization is dangerous, but the conditions under which it becomes violent.
Jeffrey Kopstein
Jeffrey Kopstein joins the Democracy Paradox to discuss when polarization turns violent. Drawing on his Journal of Democracy essay “When Polarization Turns Violent” and his book with Stephen Hanson, The Assault on the State, Kopstein explains why affective polarization, struggles over belonging, and the weakening or politicization of state authority can create the conditions for organized political violence. The conversation ranges from Charlottesville to lynching in the American South, pogroms in Eastern Europe, communal violence in India, and the rise of patrimonial leaders who treat the state as personal property rather than an impersonal rule-of-law institution.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. 
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
Introduction - 0:20
From Disagreement to Hate - 2:55
Who Owns the Polity? - 13:51
When the State Steps Aside - 26:32
The Assault on the State - 36:10
Links:
Learn more about Jeffrey Kopstein.
Read his Journal of Democracy article "When Polarization Turns Violent.”
Learn more about his co-authored book The Assault on the State.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.com
Support the show

We think the next ten years are going to be anti-billionaire.
Pepper Culpepper
Pepper Culpepper joins the Democracy Paradox to discuss when populism can strengthen democracy. Drawing on his Journal of Democracy article “When Populism Can Be Good” and his book with Taeku Lee, Billionaire Backlash, Culpepper argues that corporate scandals can channel public anger toward billionaires and large corporations in ways that reinforce democratic accountability. The conversation explores good and bad populism, economic unfairness, AI, regulation, and whether democratic governments can still stand up to concentrated corporate power.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. 
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
Introduction - 0:20
Good Populism - 3:05
Latent Opinion - 12:33
The Next Progressive Era - 20:42
Regulation vs. Abundance - 35:48
Links
Learn more about Pepper Culpepper.
Learn more about his Journal of Democracy article “When Populism Can Be Good.”
Learn more about his book Billionaire Backlash: The Age of Corporate Scandal and How It Could Save Democracy (Bloomsbury, 2026).
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.com
Support the show

We think of World War II as this global democratizing event, but what it really did was strengthen left-wing authoritarianism.
Dan Slater
Dan Slater is the James Orin Murfin Professor of Political Science and the Director of the Center of Emerging Democracies at the University of Michigan. He is the coauthor (with Joseph Wong) of the book From Development to Democracy: The Transformations of Modern Asia. More recently, he authored the article "The Authoritarian Origins of the Third Wave" in the Journal of Democracy. 
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. 
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
Introduction - 0:20
Why Scholars Stopped Taking Ideology Seriously - 3:02
The Difference Between Authoritarian Left and Right - 5:31
Why the Third Wave Narrative Gets the History Wrong - 20:45
Can Democracy Survive Ideological Extremes - 33:43
Links
Learn more about Dan Slater.
Read his article in the Journal of Democracy, "The Authoritarian Origins of the Third Wave."
Learn more about the Center for Emerging Democracies.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.com

Support the show

What happens when the violent state forged under autocracy survives into democracy?
Guillermo Trejo
In this episode of The Democracy Paradox, Kellogg faculty fellow Guillermo Trejo discusses his new book, Accountability Shock, coauthored with Lucía Tiscornia and Juan Albarracín. Trejo explains how authoritarian security forces can survive democratic transitions and fuel organized crime, and why truth commissions, prosecutions, and institutional reforms are essential tools for preventing violence and building more durable democracies.
The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame. 
Read the full transcript here.
Key Highlights
Introduction - 0:20
What Is the State? - 3:23
From Order to Crime - 9:12
The Accountability Shock - 19:10
Beyond Elections - 37:20
Links
Learn more about Guillermo Trejo.
Learn more about his book Accountability Shock: Why Transitional Justice Prevents Criminal Wars in New Democracies (Cambridge University Press, 2026)
Learn more about the Notre Dame Violence and Transitional Justice Lab.
Learn more about the Kellogg Institute.
Apes of the State created all Music
Email comments or questions to jkempf@democracyparadox.com

Support the show