The Resilient Recruiter

Six years ago, Greg Savage was the very first guest on The Resilient Recruiter.

For episode 300, he returns to discuss the biggest shift our industry has faced since the rise of the internet: artificial intelligence.

And he doesn’t hold back.

“The contingent, multi-listed perm market… I think that is over.”

Greg has built four recruitment businesses. He’s the author of The Savage Truth (20,000+ copies sold). He’s spent five decades watching this industry evolve.

His view?

AI hasn’t made recruitment easier.

In many ways, it’s made it harder.

Two years ago, Greg outlined a series of predictions about how AI would reshape recruitment. In this episode, we revisit those predictions and assess what’s proving true — and where the pace of change has accelerated.

But this isn’t a doom-and-gloom conversation.

It’s about where recruitment agencies win next.

If you lead a recruitment agency or executive search firm, this episode will challenge how you think about AI, positioning, and long-term relevance.

Episode Highlights

00:33 The biggest threat and opportunity Greg has seen in decades
02:14 Why the contingent, multi-listed perm model is under pressure
06:34 AI shortlisting chaos and the 14% overlap test
08:32 What “automating dysfunction” really means
26:20 The highest ROI AI opportunity right now
30:43 Four questions to ask before buying any AI tool
54:04 The rise of the “techno-empath” recruiter

What You’ll Learn

Why AI Is Making Recruitment Harder

Why AI screening tools produced only 14% overlap in shortlists

Research suggesting around 40% of tech candidates have inflated their resumes

What “automating dysfunction” looks like in practice

The four questions every recruitment leader should ask before investing in AI

Which Recruitment Models Will Survive

Why the contingent, multi-listed perm model is under pressure

Why retained search and executive search are positioned to grow

The business models most likely to thrive over the next five years

Why recruiters must sell decision-making, not just placements

What Recruiters Must Master Next

The highest ROI AI opportunity: activating and cleaning your recruitment database

Why “techno-empath” recruiters will win

The moments of truth that must never be automated

The skills that will define high-performing recruiters in an AI-driven market

This episode speaks directly to recruitment agency growth, retained versus contingent recruitment, and how to scale a recruitment business as AI reshapes hiring.

Why Episode 300 Matters

When I launched this podcast in 2019, Greg was my first guest.

Since then, we’ve lived through a pandemic, a hiring boom, a market correction, and now the fastest wave of AI adoption our industry has ever seen.

Bringing him back for episode 300 felt right.

This conversation is less about tools and more about leadership, positioning, and how to build a recruitment business that stays relevant.

Sponsor

This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow.

Recruiterflow is an end-to-end, AI-first ecosystem built to run and scale your recruitment business. It combines ATS, CRM, sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents in one platform, helping recruitment agencies improve visibility, accountability, and performance.

Book a demo at:
https://recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow

If you want to future-proof your recruitment business without burning out, this episode is a must-listen.

Connect with Mark Whitby

Get your FREE 30-minute strategy call:
https://www.recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session/

Connect with Mark on LinkedIn.

If you’re a recruitment agency owner serious about scaling, retained search, and staying ahead of AI in recruitment, subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter so you don’t miss future conversations like this.

If you want to future-proof your recruitment business without getting left behind, this episode is essential listening.

Why do some recruiters win retained work in a single meeting while others pitch for weeks and still lose to contingent competitors?

My guest, James O’Brien, knows exactly why. And it has nothing to do with fee structure.

James is the Managing Director and COO at i-intro. He’s been in recruitment since the late 1980s and has spent the last decade helping recruitment firms move from transactional, contingent work into retained and exclusive assignments. His clients consistently outperform the market, with 96% one-year retention and 93% of placements still in role after two years.

In this episode, James delivers a practical masterclass on consultative selling. He explains why most recruiters lose retained work before they even walk into the meeting, how to reframe hiring conversations around risk and retention, and what it really means to position yourself as a management consultant who specializes in talent acquisition.

This conversation is for recruiters who are tired of pitching, discounting, and competing with five other agencies for the same role.

You’ll hear the exact questions James uses to expose hidden hiring failure, why “wow” should be the standard for every client meeting, and how preparation, not persuasion, is what wins retained work consistently.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Why recruitment isn’t the real problem and retention is

The three questions that reframe hiring failure for clients

How to measure retention and use it to justify higher fees

Why most recruiters lose retained work in the preparation, not the pitch

How to show value instead of just describing your process

What accountability really looks like beyond the placement

Why retained fees feel fair when clients understand the true cost of hiring failure

Episode Highlights:

[03:56] Why transactional recruitment is dying

[10:13] Recruitment’s not the problem. Retention is

[13:34] How to measure retention and monetize better outcomes

[18:00] The three questions that reveal a 20–30% hiring failure rate

[32:23] Why “wow” should be your minimum standard in client meetings

[36:35] The preparation process that wins retained work

[45:00] Why proposals still matter and when to send them

[59:03] Accountability beyond the placement and why 12-month guarantees work

Sponsor

This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow — an end-to-end, AI-first recruitment platform designed to help recruiters run and scale their business more effectively. Recruiterflow combines ATS, CRM, sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents in one streamlined system. Many top recruiting leaders and members of our coaching community rely on Recruiterflow to stay organised, consistent, and competitive.

You can learn more or request a demo at https://recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow.

Guest Bio

James O’Brien is the Managing Director and COO at i-intro. Since the late 1980s, he has worked across every part of the recruitment industry and now helps recruitment firms transition from contingent to retained and exclusive search. His work focuses on retention, accountability, and elevating recruiters from job fillers to trusted talent advisors.

Connect with James:
LinkedIn: James O’Brien
Website: i-intro

Connect with Mark Whitby

Get your free 30-minute strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session

Why do some recruiters get ignored while others hear, “I never respond to recruiters, but I had to respond to you”?

Theresa Nordstrom has spent her career on both sides of the hiring table. Before launching her own search firm, she spent nearly 20 years as an HR leader. In one role, she cut agency spending by over $700,000 by building creative employee referral programs and filling roles in-house.

Then she crossed to the agency side.

In this episode of The Resilient Recruiter, Theresa explains why most recruiter outreach fails and what actually gets candidates to respond. Her answer isn’t more messages or better templates. It’s storytelling, relevance, and clarity.

Theresa shares why job descriptions don’t recruit talent, how she uncovers the real story behind a role, and how video helps her cut through candidate noise without being pushy or salesy. She also breaks down why detailed submittals matter, how she uses AI to save time without sacrificing quality, and when it genuinely makes sense for companies to use external recruiters.

Sponsor: Recruiterflow

This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow.

Recruiterflow is an end-to-end, AI-first ATS and CRM built specifically for recruitment agencies and executive search firms. It brings together ATS, CRM, sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents in one clean, intuitive platform.

Several recruitment leaders in our coaching community use Recruiterflow to execute faster, onboard new hires more easily, and spend more time on what actually matters: conversations with clients and candidates.

You can learn more or request a demo at
recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow

In this episode, you’ll learn:

Why candidates respond to stories, not job descriptions

How to get candidates to self-select early (and save time on both sides)

Why progression examples outperform vague culture claims

How video outreach cuts through noise without needing polish

What most employee referral programs get wrong

Why detailed submittals increase interview ratios

How to use AI to elevate quality, not replace judgment

Episode highlights:

[3:01] Why Theresa left a 20-year HR career to start her own search firm
[6:41] The Harley Davidson referral program that saved hundreds of thousands in agency fees
[9:22] How to elicit the story behind a role candidates actually care about
[12:32] Why proof of progression beats generic culture messaging
[23:21] How to partner with HR without getting blocked
[44:20] The video outreach approach that makes candidates stop and respond
[55:03] Why Theresa spends so much time on submittals
[58:34] Mixing retained, exclusive, and selective contingent work strategically

Guest bio

Theresa Nordstrom is the founder of Talent Company, an executive search firm specializing in accounting, finance, HR, and C-suite roles. Before launching her firm in 2015, Theresa spent nearly 20 years as an HR leader, where she became known for creative employee referral programs that dramatically reduced agency spend. Her approach today centres on storytelling, multi-channel video outreach, and presenting candidates in ways that make interview decisions easy.

If you want to future-proof your recruitment business without burning out, this episode is a must-listen.

Why do some recruitment agencies collapse during recessions while others keep growing?

Gerard Koolen has watched his business expand through three major crises: the 2008 financial collapse, COVID-19, and the war in Ukraine. Each time, Lugera grew. Not by working harder, but by building the business differently.

Gerard is the founder of Lugera, a recruitment agency with 11 offices, over 500 employees, and €243 million in annual revenue. Operating across a region tested by economic downturns and geopolitical instability, his firm has been forced to adapt repeatedly. Instead of relying on a single revenue stream, Gerard built what he calls an “all-seasons service portfolio.”

Over time, Lugera developed eight distinct revenue streams. When permanent hiring slowed, outplacement surged. When clients froze recruitment, other services stepped in. One stream compensated for another, keeping the business resilient when markets turned.

That approach created a new problem. Managing eight revenue streams manually nearly broke the company. Gerard invested 10 years and €2.2 million in building technology to automate work that once required a team of 30 people. Today, one part-time employee handles what used to take an entire department.

In this episode, Gerard breaks down how the model works. He explains how to monetise the 99% of candidates most agencies never place, why traditional ATS systems quietly limit growth, and how outplacement can become a counter-cyclical revenue stream.

If you want to build a recruitment business that grows through uncertainty instead of being crushed by it, this conversation will change how you think about revenue, technology, and resilience.

What you’ll learn:

Why Lugera grew 20% during the 2008 recession

What an “all-seasons service portfolio” looks like in practice

Why most agencies monetise only 0.2% of their candidate database

How eight revenue streams reduce risk and smooth volatility

Why your ATS may be capping your growth without you realising

How automation replaced 30 staff with one part-time role

Why does outplacement generate revenue when hiring stops

Episode highlights:

[03:30] Growing during the 2008 recession

[05:53] The all-seasons service portfolio

[08:01] Monetising the 99% of candidates you never place

[14:34] The real cost of building the technology

[19:42] Why most ATS platforms restrict growth

[27:02] Doubling placements without doubling effort

[31:33] Turning outplacement into a €1M revenue stream

[45:25] Automated outreach that converts job ads into leads

Sponsor

This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow.

Recruiterflow is an AI-first ATS and CRM built to help recruitment businesses run and scale more efficiently. It combines ATS, CRM, sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents in one platform. Many leaders in our coaching community rely on Recruiterflow to streamline operations and improve execution.

Learn more or request a demo at recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow

Guest Bio

Gerard Koolen is the founder of Lugera, a recruitment and staffing agency with 11 offices across Eastern Europe, over 500 employees, and €243 million in annual revenue. After investing 10 years and €2.2 million developing proprietary AI matching technology, Gerard created the Recruitment Revenue Platform to help recruitment agencies build multiple revenue streams beyond traditional placement fees. This is Gerard’s third appearance on The Resilient Recruiter.

Connect with Gerard
LinkedIn: Gerard Koolen
Website: lugera.com
Recruitment Revenue Platform: recruitmentrevenueplatform.com

Special offer: Get 100 free credits plus personal onboarding at recruitmentcoach.com/staa

Connect with Mark
Free strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session
LinkedIn: Mark Whitby
Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

Subscribe to The Resilient Recruiter

Why do some recruiters stay stuck on contingent work while others shift a large portion of their business to retained without pitching harder or sounding salesy?

James Cairns found the answer the hard way.

James is a CPA who left a stable corporate finance career to start a boutique search firm with no agency experience, no local network, and just $30,000 in savings. His first year was brutal. Three placements. Borrowed money. Serious doubts about whether he'd made a huge mistake.

Then one summer night, sitting on his back porch, James made a decision that changed everything. He eliminated Plan B.

From that point on, momentum followed. Today, James runs The CSP Group, a highly respected finance and accounting search firm in St. Louis. He regularly beats national firms, fills senior roles up to CFO level, and now operates with roughly 40% of his work on retained or contained terms.

In this episode, James breaks down what actually drove that shift. Not better sales tactics, scripts, or pressure. But commitment, process, and the confidence to walk away from the wrong work.

This conversation offers a clear look at what changes when a recruiter stops competing on volume and starts choosing the right work.

In this episode, you'll learn:

Why eliminating "Plan B" unlocked consistent momentum

How James moved from 3 placements to 40% retained work

The candidate profiling system that generates a third of his placements

Why being local and specialized beats national firms

How to position retained search without pitching or pressure

Why walkaway power matters more than persuasion

Episode highlights:

[3:44] Why a CPA with zero agency experience started a search firm

[6:31] Quitting with $30K, a pregnant wife, and no local network

[8:46] First-year reality: three placements and borrowed money

[10:04] The back porch moment that eliminated Plan B

[18:41] The candidate process that transformed responsiveness

[21:51] Talent profiles and how they drive a third of placements

[38:02] Why local specialization beats national firms

[43:27] The CFO placement that changed everything

[50:04] "This is how we work": James's retained positioning

[59:06] Why walkaway power leads to more retained work

James's story is proof that retained success isn't about being louder or more persuasive. It's about clarity, commitment, and choosing the right work.

Guest Bio:

James Cairns is the founder of The CSP Group, a boutique executive search firm specializing in finance and accounting talent in the St. Louis market. James earned his CPA license and began his career at PwC in Big Four audit before moving into corporate finance roles. He started The CSP Group in 2014 with $30,000 in savings, a one-year-old at home, another child on the way, and no local business network. After a difficult first year, James committed fully to making the business work - a decision that changed everything. Today, the CSP Group places senior-level finance professionals up to the CFO level, with approximately 40% of search assignments on retained or contained terms.

Connect with James:

James on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-cairns-062a5b7/

The CSP Group website - https://thecspgroup.com/

Connect with Mark: Get your free 30-minute strategy session: recruitmentcoach.com/strategy-session

Mark on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/mwhitby/?originalSubdomain=uk

Follow on Instagram: @RecruitmentCoach

This episode is brought to you by Recruiterflow.
Recruiterflow is an AI-first ATS and CRM built to help recruitment businesses run and scale more efficiently. With built-in sequencing, data enrichment, marketing automation, and AI agents, it’s trusted by many leaders in our coaching community.
Learn more or request a demo at https://recruitmentcoach.com/recruiterflow