The Art of Manliness

With the release of Christopher Nolan's adaptation of the Odyssey, it seems like everyone's been talking about a 3,000-year-old epic again. But my guest thinks this ancient tale offers a framework for understanding our modern lives that you probably haven't heard before.
Patrick Deneen is a professor of political science and the author of American Odyssey. Today on the show, Patrick argues that Odysseus embodies a tension that has defined the human experience, and especially the American experience: we're both home-seeking and exploring, rooted and restless. We long to settle down somewhere, yet we're equally driven to push beyond the horizon in search of something new. Patrick shares how Alexis de Tocqueville made this observation about our country two centuries ago, how Odysseus navigates the temptation to become both more than human and less than human, and the surprising act Patrick thinks is the most heroic thing Odysseus does. We end our conversation with the idea that having a home can give us the confidence to explore, or as David Brooks put it, "All of life is a series of daring explorations from a secure base."

Resources Related to the Podcast
AoM Article: 3 Lessons From Homer’s Odyssey
AoM Podcast #337: What Homer’s Odyssey Can Teach Us Today
Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville
"Ulysses" by Alfred, Lord Tennyson
Connect With Patrick Deneen
Patrick's faculty page
Patrick's website
American Odyssey's page on Creed and Culture's website

0:00 Intro & sponsor plugs
0:41 Patrick Deneen's American Odyssey & Nolan's film
2:28 Nolan's changes to Odysseus's character
4:56 Dante's Odysseus in hell
7:33 Why Odyssey keeps drawing Patrick back
13:02 The most American text: home-seeking vs exploring
17:15 Tocqueville's restless Americans
20:03 Restlessness as source of American unhappiness
21:03 Odysseus vs the temptation to be more/less than human
26:14 That temptation in modern American life
31:26 Odysseus's underworld talk with Achilles
39:41 What today's Americans can take from that
41:24 Does Odysseus stay home? The "sequels" to The Odyssey
45:49 Home as the foundation for risk-taking and adventure
51:14 Where to find the book
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When most people think of negotiation, they picture big, high-stakes moments: haggling over the price of a house, negotiating a starting salary, or hammering out the terms of a business deal. But negotiation is also something we do every day. It’s working out who’s taking on which chores with your spouse, convincing a coworker to help on a project, or even deciding where to go for dinner with friends. The better you understand negotiation — which is really about influencing other people’s decisions — the better you’ll be at navigating conflicts and opportunities both big and small.
My guest has spent decades studying the art and science of wielding that influence. John Richardson teaches negotiation at MIT’s Sloan School of Management and is the co-author of Never Settle. Today on the show, John shares what he learned from negotiation legends like Roger Fisher, co-author of Getting to Yes, and FBI hostage negotiator Chris Voss. He unpacks the skills of master negotiators, including how to build reciprocity, uncover what people actually want, and keep your emotions from hijacking your judgment. We also get into the part of negotiation that makes people the most uncomfortable: the back-and-forth over hard numbers like price and salary and how to handle those conversations with greater confidence and better results.
Resources Related to the PodcastAoM Podcast #234: Haggling and Deal Making Advice From a FBI Hostage Negotiator (With Chris Voss)
AoM Podcast #559: How to Handle Difficult Conversations (With Sheila Heen)
Influence: The Essential Guide to the Psychology of Influence and Persuasion in Everyday Life by Robert B. Cialdini
AoM Article: How Labeling Your Emotions Can Help You Take Control
Getting to Yes: Negotiating Agreement Without Giving In by Roger Fisher
Start with NO…The Negotiating Tools that the Pros Don’t Want You to Know by Jim Camp

Connect With John Richardson
Never Settle website
John’s faculty page

0:00 Everyday Negotiation & Meet John Richardson
2:18 John's Path Into Negotiation
9:50 Why People Fear Negotiation
12:34 Roger Fisher's Philosophy (Getting to Yes)
17:46 Chris Voss & Hostage Negotiation Tactics
22:54 Give Them a Sandwich (Reciprocity)
30:06 Using Someone's Name
33:59 Managing Your Emotions
39:00 Figuring Out What Everyone Wants
46:29 Distributive Negotiation & Anchoring
54:52 Alternatives, Saying No & Closing
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Most people assume that if a goal is hard to achieve, getting there has to feel hard too. We tend to believe that extraordinary results require extraordinary suffering.
But my guest says the secret to success isn't gritting your teeth; it's making the path enjoyable. His name is Jia Jiang, and in his new book, Easy Discipline, he argues that consistency comes from designing your work and your life so that doing the right thing becomes something you actually want to do. Today on the show, Jia explains the difference between hard and easy discipline, why "eating bitterness" isn't the best way to go after your ambitions, and how to make your work feel more like play without lowering your standards. Along the way, we discuss Soviet hockey, Japanese tea ceremonies, rejection therapy, one-action goals, and the power of pursuing aims that are an expression of who you are.

Resources Related to the Podcast
Jia's previous book: Rejection Therapy
Jia's 100 Days of Rejection Therapy videos, including asking for a "burger refill"
AoM Article: Motivation Over Discipline
AoM Podcast #954: The Feel-Good Method of Productivity
Connect With Jia Jiang
Jia on Substack
Jia's website
Jia on LinkedIn

0:00 Introduction to the AOM Podcast
0:41 Introducing Jia Jiang and Easy Discipline
1:36 Welcome Jia Jiang / The Myth of Sisyphus
6:05 Hard Discipline vs. Easy Discipline
9:36 Eating Bitterness
10:44 Soviet Hockey: Tarasov vs. Tikhonov
16:02 The EASY Framework: Enjoyment
31:02 Artistry and Ichi-go Ichi-e
33:54 Systems and One Action Goals
41:22 Repetition with Variation
44:18 Why: Being True to Yourself
52:33 Where to Find Jia Jiang's Work
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Many of us grow up believing that midlife is when things start going downhill. Your body's breaking down, your best work is behind you, and you may fall into a full-blown existential crisis. But a lot of what we think we know about midlife turns out to be based more on pop culture than actual research.
My guest says the reality is much more encouraging. Her name is Margie Lachman. She's a professor of psychology, the Director of the Lifespan Lab at Brandeis University, and the author of Primetime: A New Vision for Midlife. Today on the show, Margie discusses what age range constitutes midlife — and how it's not just a matter of chronological age — and whether people really become less happy and experience a midlife crisis during these years. She explains the surprising ways your mind continues to improve even as some abilities slow down, and why this stage of life often represents a peak combination of creativity and judgment. We also talk about the real challenges that come with midlife and how adopting the right mindset and habits can mitigate those downsides while helping you make the most of what Margie argues can truly be a sweet spot in life — a time when you still have much of your physical and mental vitality, and it's coupled with seasoned experience and wisdom.

Resources Related to the Podcast
Seasons of a Man’s Life by Daniel Levinson
AoM series on Levinson’s research
Transformations: Growth and Change in Adult Life by Roger Gould
Passages: Predictable Crises of Adult Life by Gail Sheehy
AoM Podcast #598: Journeying From the First to the Second Half of Life With James Hollis
AoM Podcast #776: How to Shift Out of the Midlife Malaise
Connect With Margie Lachman
Margie's website
Margie's faculty page

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George Washington is perhaps the most familiar figure in American history. But most people really only know the image of him they see in marble statues and patriotic paintings. Behind those symbols was a real man: ambitious, self-taught, intensely concerned with honor, and constantly wrestling with the immense responsibilities history placed on his shoulders.
In celebration of America's 250th birthday, we're taking an extended look at the life of the man more responsible than anyone else for the nation's founding. Here to unpack that life for us is H.W. Brands, a historian and the author of a new biography of Washington, American Patriarch. Brands traces Washington's journey from a young Virginia surveyor to military commander, founding father, and first president. Along the way, we discuss how Washington's upbringing shaped his character, why he became a surprisingly effective military leader despite losing more battles than he won, how he held together a fragile revolutionary army, how he shaped the presidency through the precedents he set, and whether a leader like Washington could still succeed today.
Resources Related to the Podcast
H.W.'s previous appearances on the AoM podcast:
Episode #696: Theodore Roosevelt, The Last Romantic
Episode #908: Would You Have Been a Patriot or a Loyalist?
AoM Podcast #223: George Washington, Benedict Arnold, and Valiant Ambition
AoM Podcast #366: Teach Yourself Like George Washington
AoM Podcast #719: The Surprising Pessimism of America’s Founding Fathers
AoM Article: George Washington’s Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior in Company and Conversation
Connect With H.W. Brands
H.W. on Substack
H.W.’s faculty page

00:00 Introduction
01:53 About the book American Patriarch
03:03 Washington's childhood & Virginia gentry upbringing
06:54 Self-education, surveying, and early ambition
11:47 First military mission to the Ohio country
17:11 The French and Indian War & Washington's baptism under fire
24:44 Washington marries Martha Custis
33:57 Washington takes command of the Continental Army
40:17 Military strategy: how Washington won by not losing
46:41 Holding the army together at Valley Forge
55:57 Washington as first president & setting precedents
1:09:56 The Farewell Address & legacy
1:10:15 What Washington teaches us today

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