Informed Saints

Did Joseph Smith copy the Book of Mormon from View of the Hebrews by Ethan Smith? In this episode, we examine one of the most common critical claims about the Book of Mormon’s origins and ask whether the evidence really holds up.

We break down what View of the Hebrews actually is, why critics compare it to the Book of Mormon, where the plagiarism theory came from, and whether the supposed parallels are truly compelling. We also look at issues like Oliver Cowdery, Ethan Smith, B.H. Roberts, Fawn Brodie, the CES Letter claims, and whether there is any real evidence of direct borrowing.

If you’ve heard the claim that Joseph Smith copied from View of the Hebrews, this episode gives historical context, textual analysis, and a clear response to one of the most repeated arguments against the Book of Mormon. 

===Informed Saints Credits===

Produced by The Ancient America Foundation

Producer: Spencer Clark

Hosts: Stephen Smoot, Neal Rappleye, Jasmin Rappleye

Show Notes and Further Sources:

https://mormonr.org/qnas/vFzgdj/the_book_of_mormon_and_view_of_the_hebrews

https://archive.org/details/adissertationon01smitgoog/page/n6/mode/1up

https://bhroberts.org/records/0rGxg3-bStRSd/s_w_l_scott_reports_on_debate_where_view_of_the_hebrews_was_claimed_to_be_a_source_of_plagiarism_for_the_book_of_mormon

https://bhroberts.org/records/8Lyyfk-vrdPjg/fawn_brodie_argues_that_voth_was_a_source_of_inspiration_for_joseph_smith

https://mormonr.org/qnas/sk58P/b_h_roberts_testimony

https://bhroberts.org/records/8Lyyfk-b4jsdk/richard_s_van_wagoner_speculates_that_oliver_cowdery_provided_js_with_voth_and_may_have_helped_print_the_book

https://bhroberts.org/records/jpNwrg-R4Fwqg/john_l_brooke_postulates_a_connection_between_ethan_smith_and_oliver_cowdery

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/byusq/vol39/iss1/7/

https://scripturecentral.org/archive/books/book/view-hebrews-1825-2nd-edition

https://scripturecentral.org/archive/presentations/report/finding-answers-bh-robertss-questions-and-unparallel

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V20N01_68.pdf

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1068&context=msr

Chapters

(00:00:00) - Placed in the Book of Mormon: View of the Hebrews
(00:04:23) - View of the Hebrews in the Book of Mormon
(00:09:56) - The Platooning Theory in the Book of Mormon
(00:14:58) - B.H. Roberts and the Book of Mormon
(00:19:21) - Ethan and Ether: Parallel Mania
(00:23:06) - Plural Legends in the Book of Mormon
(00:27:48) - Ethan Smith and Oliver Cowdery
(00:33:03) - Oliver Cowdery: The Missing Link in the Book of
(00:37:55) - View of the Hebrews: The Book of Mormon Conspiracy

The “dark secret” narrative about the Book of Abraham often gets reduced to a 30-second claim: the Church found papyri fragments in 1967, Egyptologists translated them, and they don’t match the Book of Abraham—case closed. In this conversation, we slow down and add the missing context: what the recovered fragments actually are, why the assumption that the adjacent text must equal the Book of Abraham text is questionable, and what multiple eyewitness accounts say Joseph Smith was translating from. We also talk about the “missing papyri” question, how long the larger roll may have been, and why the relationship between the surviving fragments and the published Book of Abraham text can’t be settled conclusively by fragments alone.

If you’ve only heard the simplified version, this episode is for you—full story, better questions, and a clearer framework for thinking about a complex historical issue. 

This segment is taken from a full episode we have published previously with Kerry and hope you enjoy this bonus segment!

https://youtu.be/RSI7knxTAqc

===Informed Saints Credits===

Produced by The Ancient America Foundation

Producer: Spencer Clark

Hosts: Stephen Smoot, Neal Rappleye, Jasmin Rappleye

Watch, share, and tell us what stood out most.

Further Readings:

Gospel Topics Essay (Official): “Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham” 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng

•Joseph Smith Papers (Official hub): “Book of Abraham and Egyptian Material” 

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/site/book-of-abraham-and-egyptian-material

•Joseph Smith Papers (Primary documents context): “Introduction to Egyptian Papyri, circa 300–100 BC” 

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/introduction-to-egyptian-papyri-circa-300-100-bc/1

•Joseph Smith Papers (Publication history): “Book of Abraham and Facsimiles, 1 March–16 May 1842” 

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/book-of-abraham-and-facsimiles-1-march-16-may-1842

•BYU Religious Studies Center: “Joseph Smith and the Papyri” (Intro volume page) 

https://rsc.byu.edu/introduction-book-abraham/joseph-smith-papyri

•BYU Religious Studies Center: “Relationship of the Book of Abraham Text to the Papyri” 

https://rsc.byu.edu/introduction-book-abraham/relationship-book-abraham-text-papyri

•BYU Studies Quarterly: “The Relationship Between the Book of Abraham and the Joseph Smith Papyri” 

https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/the-relationship-between-the-book-of-abraham-and-the-joseph-smith-papyri

•Pearl of Great Price Central: “What Egyptian Papyri Did Joseph Smith Possess?” 

https://pearlofgreatpricecentral.org/what-egyptian-papyri-did-joseph-smith-possess/

•Pearl of Great Price Central: “The Relationship Between the Book...

Chapters

(00:00:00) - What is the Dark Secret of the Book of Abraham?
(00:03:00) - The Book of Abraham: An Allegation or Proof?
(00:05:49) - Book of Abraham and the Book of Mormon
(00:07:32) - Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham
(00:13:08) - The Mormon Church Admits the Book of Abraham Is False

Could Joseph Smith have fabricated the Book of Mormon gold plates in a garage? In this episode, we take a serious look at that claim by comparing it with the actual historical record, eyewitness descriptions, and the physical requirements the witnesses described.

We break down the dimensions, weight, thickness, rings, sealed portion, engravings, and appearance of the plates, and then explore whether a natural explanation really fits the data. We also tackle the “plate math” question: Could the full Book of Mormon text (including the lost 116 pages) realistically fit on the plates?

Along the way, we discuss:

•Witness descriptions of the plates

•Why “just use tin/brass/printing plates” doesn’t fully match the evidence

•Translation density and how ancient scripts compare to English

•Character size, compact writing, and ancient metal inscriptions

•Why critics and believers alike should use the right parameters

This is a thoughtful response to the claim that “gold plates aren’t a miracle” and a deeper dive into what the historical and physical evidence actually suggests.

===Informed Saints Credits===

Produced by The Ancient America Foundation

Producer: Spencer Clark

Hosts: Stephen Smoot, Neal Rappleye, Jasmin Rappleye

Watch, share, and tell us what stood out most.

Further Readings:

•Neal Rappleye, “Written Upon Gold Plates” – Comparing Witness Descriptions with Artifacts from the Pre-Modern World (FAIR 2023 conference page)

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/conference_home/virt-2023_defending-the-bom

•Josh Coates, “Plate Math: A Combinatorial Approach to Modeling All Possible Golden Plates” (FAIR conference presentation/transcript)

https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/conference_home/august-2025-fair-conference/plate-math-a-combinatorial-approach-to-modeling-all-possible-golden-plates

•Sonia Hazard, “How Joseph Smith Encountered Printing Plates and Founded Mormonism” (Cambridge / Religion and American Culture)

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/religion-and-american-culture/article/how-joseph-smith-encountered-printing-plates-and-founded-mormonism/FA3DCD9FBDD5CA3DF335B3360DF655E5

•Neal Rappleye talk on YouTube (FAIR), “Written Upon Gold Plates”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAgzJ8MYrcw

•Joseph Smith Papers, Testimony of the Three Witnesses (primary source)

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/appendix-4-testimony-of-three-witnesses-late-june-1829

•Joseph Smith Papers, Testimony of the Eight Witnesses (primary source)

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/appendix-5-testimony-of-eight-witnesses-late-june-1829

•Church History Topics, Witnesses of the Book of Mormon (official Church resource)

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/witnesses-of-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng

•Scripture Central, Why Did Martin Harris Somet...

Chapters

(00:00:00) - Could Joseph Smith Just Fabricated the Gold Plates?
(00:04:22) - How to Make a Gold Plates
(00:04:41) - The Printing Plates Theory
(00:08:26) - The Gold Plates: Physical Requirements
(00:14:08) - The Tumbaga Gold Plates
(00:19:51) - How Hard Would It Be to Make Gold Plates?
(00:23:15) - The Numbers of the Gold Plates
(00:28:52) - The translation density of the Book of Mormon
(00:30:45) - The size of the Book of Mormon characters
(00:37:06) - The number of gold plates required

In the 1980s, around 80% of people raised Latter-day Saint still identified with the Church as adults—today it’s closer to 50%. Online, that gets framed as “the Church is uniquely hemorrhaging members.” But when you zoom out and compare to broader U.S. religious trends, the story looks more complicated—and in key ways, more hopeful.

In this episode, social scientist Justin Dyer (BYU) breaks down major national datasets and new research on Latter-day Saint religiousness, well-being, and retention in the United States. We talk:

•Why “big data” needs careful context (forest vs trees)

•How LDS retention compares to other Christian traditions (especially active participation)

•The surprising reality of “ex-Mormon” profiles (including the “faith keepers/leaners” groups)

•Why daily connection with God matters for retention

•How political identity—on the extremes—can pull people away from faith

•What the data actually suggests about mental health, happiness, and well-being

•Why you shouldn’t burn bridges—and why the story isn’t finished

===Informed Saints Credits===

Produced by The Ancient America Foundation

Producer: Spencer Clark

Hosts: Stephen Smoot, Neal Rappleye, Jasmin Rappleye

Materials mentioned / core context

•https://foundations.byu.edu/0000019b-1343-d613-a59b-17df82980000/latterdaysaintreligiosity-pdf

•https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/02/26/religious-landscape-study-executive-summary/

•https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/02/26/decline-of-christianity-in-the-us-has-slowed-may-have-leveled-off/

•https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/12/15/why-do-some-americans-leave-their-religion-while-others-stay/

•https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Bowling-Alone-Revised-and-Updated/Robert-D-Putnam/9781982130848

•https://medicine.utah.edu/psychiatry/news/2015/05/key-mountain-states-suicide-belt-thin-air-u-of-u-school-of-medicine

Positive, faith-supporting resources (for audience)

•https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng

•https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2020/04/54uchtdorf?lang=eng

•https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2023/10/51nelson?lang=eng

Mental health & resilience resources (Church)

•https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/ldsorg/topics/self-reliance/4-10-20-Emotional-Self-Reliance-Manual_updated.pdf?lang=eng 

•http...

Chapters

(00:00:00) - The Growing Disbandment of the Latter Day Saints
(00:00:41) - Justin Dyer on Latter Day Saint religious
(00:05:09) - Latter Day Saints and social connectedness
(00:11:11) - The Biggest predictor of Leaving the Church
(00:20:36) - The typical ex-Mormon profile
(00:24:35) - What are some factors that might lead a person to reject faith entirely
(00:29:58) - How Does the Latter Day Saint Church Fare on Mental Health?
(00:32:21) - Mental Well-Being among Latter Day Saints
(00:34:51) - A message about the future of Latter Day Saints

The restored gospel didn’t “start” in 1830, it’s ancient, and Abraham’s story is one of the clearest windows into the covenant pathway and temple worship.

In this conversation with Jeff Bradshaw (senior research scientist and leading Latter-day Saint temple scholar), we explore how the Abraham narratives in Genesis (and the restoration through the Joseph Smith Translation and the Book of Abraham) point to:

• The Abrahamic Covenant as the New & Everlasting Covenant (and the Oath & Covenant of the Priesthood)

• How Abraham’s life models obedience, sacrifice, consecration, and promised blessings

• Melchizedek and what “king and priest” can mean spiritually

• The sacrament as a renewal of all our covenants (not just baptism)

• New names (Abraham/Sarah) and initiatory connections

• Sealing “welding links,” messy family stories, and God’s power to heal and gather

If you’ve ever wondered why Abraham’s story matters for your discipleship and temple worship today—this episode is for you.

===Informed Saints Credits===

Produced by The Ancient America Foundation

Producer: Spencer Clark

Hosts: Stephen Smoot, Neal Rappleye, Jasmin Rappleye

Resources mentioned:

Jeffrey M. Bradshaw — Look Unto Abraham and Sarah (In the Beginning, Vol. 3) 

https://amzn.to/45Ua5Xd

• Jeffrey M. Bradshaw et al. — In God’s Image and Likeness, Vol. 3 (Abraham) 

https://interpreterfoundation.org/books/in-gods-image-and-likeness-3

• Jeffrey M. Bradshaw — Temple Themes in the Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood 

https://fairlatterdaysaints.org/store/product/temple-themes-in-the-oath-and-covenant-of-the-priesthood-pdf/

• “An article on temple themes in the Book of Abraham” (referenced by the host) 

A solid, relevant academic PDF on this theme (BYU ScholarsArchive):

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1012&context=ifb&filename=5&type=additional

• Doctrine and Covenants 84 (Oath & Covenant of the Priesthood) 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/84?lang=eng

• Doctrine and Covenants 132 (sealing / Abrahamic covenant connections referenced in discussion) 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/132?lang     

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/pgp/abr/2?lang=eng

• Bradshaw’s publication hub (tons of PDFs & links you can mine for show notes) 

https://www.templethemes.net/publications.php

• Dura-Europos / “hand through the veil” imagery context (ties to their Isaac discussion)    

https://byustudies.byu.edu/article/the-ezekiel-mural-at-dura-europos-a-witness-of-ancient-jewish-mysteries

• 11 K tradition mentioned

https://www.marquette.edu/maqom/11QMelchizedek.pdf

https://interpreterfoundation.org/journal/ancient-affinities-within-the-lds-book-of-enoch-part-one

https://interpreterfoundation.org/journal/ancient-affinities-within-the-lds-book-of-enoch-part-two

https://interpreterfoundation.org/journal/revisiting-the-forgotten-voices-of-weeping-in-moses-7-a-comparison-with-ancient-texts

https://interpreterfoundation.org/journal/moses-6-7-and-the-book-of-giants-remarkable-witnesses-of-enochs-ministry

===Discover===

If any of our thoughts resonated with you, consider learning more about the single most influential book in our lives.

https://www.discoverbookofmormon.org/

===Content Disclaimer===

The views expressed represent ours alone and do not necessarily reflect the official position of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

#lds #latterdaysaints #jesuschrist #temple #abrahamiccovenant #bookof...

Chapters

(00:00:00) - The Story of Abraham
(00:00:29) - Jeffrey Bradshaw on the Book of Abraham
(00:05:14) - What on Earth Can The Book of Abraham Do to Inform Our Own
(00:10:15) - Joseph Smith on His Covenant Making
(00:16:48) - The Melchizedek Priesthood and Enoch
(00:19:06) - The Sacrament from the Melchizedek Story
(00:22:50) - The Initiatory in Abraham's Story
(00:28:13) - Lot and His descendants: a welding link
(00:31:55) - The Story of Abraham