I Hate It Here

Featured Guest: Allison Howell (CEO, Hogan Assessments)

This is The Leadership Divide, a special series with Hogan Assessments in partnership with I Hate It Here!

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We spent this entire series proving that leadership fails because orgs KEEP choosing leaders using criteria held together by bias and outdated tactics!

In this finale, I’m bringing back Hogan Assessments CEO Allison Howell to talk about everything that breaks when bad leadership takes over, why women were never the problem (shocking absolutely no one), and how small acts of workplace rebellion can help us build something better.

Dare I say, it’s one of those convos that might even give you a little hope for the future!

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Hogan Assessments is the international leader in personality insights.

With the world’s largest database of personality research and decades’ worth of experience in psychometrics, Hogan produces valid, reliable personality assessments that measure everyday strengths, potential shortcomings, and values and motivators.

Hogan’s solutions empower organizations to hire the right people without bias, boost productivity, reduce turnover, promote diversity and inclusion, identify high-potential talent, develop leaders, and inspire employees to do their best.

To learn more, check them out at ⁠⁠⁠http://hogan.to/ihateithere⁠⁠⁠

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And if you love I Hate It Here, sign up to Hebba’s newsletter! It’s for jaded, overworked, and emotionally burnt-out HR/People Operations professionals needing a little inspiration.⁠⁠⁠https://workweek.com/discover-newsletters/i-hate-it-here-newsletter/⁠⁠⁠

And if you love the podcast, be sure to check out ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here⁠⁠⁠ for even more exclusive insider content!

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Follow Allison on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisonhowell2/

Follow Hebba:

YouTube:⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here/videos⁠⁠⁠

LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠ https://linkedin.com/in/hebba-youssef⁠⁠⁠

Twitter:⁠⁠⁠ https://twitter.com/hebbamyoussef⁠⁠

Welcome to the first-ever HR Glow Up Awards! The trophies are fake, but the workplace trauma is real.

I’m joined by RyanMae McAvoy Pepin and Josiah Hernández to celebrate HR’s biggest improvements, drag the practices that refuse to die, reaffirm my love for Mariah Carey, and debate everything from four-day workweeks to AI-powered layoffs.

Today’s episode is a little different, but naturally, you can expect the same amount of unhinged energy!

Is it chaotic? Well, I’ll leave that up to you to decide!

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With Shapes, people management looks completely different.

Think AI agents handling the routine, a secure HR core, and the ability to build any people tool your org needs, just by describing it in plain english in their built in Shapes Vibe studio.

If your systems feel stuck in 2015, go check out Shapes at ⁠⁠https://shapes.co/⁠⁠

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If you love I Hate It Here, sign up to Hebba’s newsletter! It’s for jaded, overworked, and emotionally burnt-out HR/People Operations professionals needing a little inspiration. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://workweek.com/discover-newsletters/i-hate-it-here-newsletter/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

And if you love the podcast, be sure to check out⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for even more exclusive insider content!

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Follow RyanMae on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rm80920/

Follow Josiah onLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josiah23/

Follow Hebba

YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here/videos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://linkedin.com/in/hebba-youssef⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Twitter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://twitter.com/hebbamyoussef⁠⁠⁠⁠

Come join Hebba at Safe Space Summit 2026 in Huntington Beach, CA! To learn more, check out:⁠⁠ https://www.safespacesummit.com/

Featured Guest: Jackie Sahm (Vice President of Integrated Solutions, Hogan Assessments)

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We've built a world where the people who get promoted aren't always the people who should be leading, and we have enough data to stop this madness and do something about it!

In this latest episode of The Leadership Divide, Hogan Assessment's Jackie Sahm and I get into why orgs keep confusing performance with potential, why confidence gets mistaken for competence, and how we accidentally engineer the exact leadership problems we're all complaining about.

This situation is far more common than it should be, but the good news is that it doesn’t have to be!

00:00:00 - Intro

00:01:56 - What’s The Difference Between Performance And Potential?

00:04:20 - What Are Orgs Actually Measuring?

00:07:01 - Why Leaders Mistake Similarity For Potential

00:11:11 - Should Intuition Ever Drive Promotions?

00:13:37 - What Does The Leadership Effectiveness Gap Look Like?

00:19:50 - Why Doesn’t The System Get Fixed?

00:27:05 - What Does A Better Talent Process Look Like?

00:33:21 - Where HR Should Start

00:42:02 - Should We Audit Promotion Decisions?

00:46:11 - What Do Orgs Keep Getting Wrong About Leadership?

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Hogan Assessments is the international leader in personality insights.

With the world’s largest database of personality research and decades’ worth of experience in psychometrics, Hogan produces valid, reliable personality assessments that measure everyday strengths, potential shortcomings, and values and motivators.

Hogan’s solutions empower organizations to hire the right people without bias, boost productivity, reduce turnover, promote diversity and inclusion, identify high-potential talent, develop leaders, and inspire employees to do their best.

To learn more, check them out at ⁠⁠http://hogan.to/ihateithere⁠⁠

---

And if you love I Hate It Here, sign up to Hebba’s newsletter! It’s for jaded, overworked, and emotionally burnt-out HR/People Operations professionals needing a little inspiration.⁠⁠https://workweek.com/discover-newsletters/i-hate-it-here-newsletter/⁠⁠

And if you love the podcast, be sure to check out ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here⁠⁠ for even more exclusive insider content!

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Follow Jackie on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackie-vanbroekhoven-sahm-8263686/



Follow Hebba:

YouTube:⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here/videos⁠⁠

LinkedIn:⁠⁠ https://linkedin.com/in/hebba-youssef⁠⁠

Twitter:⁠⁠ https://twitter.com/hebbamyoussef⁠⁠

I swear every company says culture matters... right up until someone has to make an actual decision.

The reason decisions don’t get made quickly enough is because of the whole "culture is everyone's job" mentality, and I think it’s time for a little more nuance!

Dani Herrera and I get into why culture isn't your values page or your CEO's favorite buzzword, but instead, the behaviors your policies reward every single day.

We also unpack why HR has way more influence than we give ourselves credit for, why "best practices" is a cringey concept, and why AI is about to amplify every good (and bad) decision we've already made.

---

With Shapes, people management looks completely different.

Think AI agents handling the routine, a secure HR core, and the ability to build any people tool your org needs, just by describing it in plain english in their built in Shapes Vibe studio.

If your systems feel stuck in 2015, go check out Shapes at ⁠https://shapes.co/⁠

---

If you love I Hate It Here, sign up to Hebba’s newsletter! It’s for jaded, overworked, and emotionally burnt-out HR/People Operations professionals needing a little inspiration. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://workweek.com/discover-newsletters/i-hate-it-here-newsletter/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

And if you love the podcast, be sure to check out⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ for even more exclusive insider content!

---

Follow Hebba

YouTube:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here/videos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

LinkedIn:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://linkedin.com/in/hebba-youssef⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Twitter:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ https://twitter.com/hebbamyoussef⁠⁠⁠

Come join Hebba at Safe Space Summit 2026 in Huntington Beach, CA! To learn more, check out:⁠ https://www.safespacesummit.com/

Featured Guest: Jocelyn Hays (Director of Hogan Applications, Hogan Assessments)

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You know that coworker who was perfectly lovely until they got promoted and suddenly became a completely different person?

Yeahhhh….I think we’ve all been there. There’s a reason for that, though!

I’m joined by Jocelyn Hays to unpack the dark side of leadership, the 11 derailers hiding inside basically all of us, why so many orgs get this wrong, and how the exact traits that help you succeed can become the ones ruining everyone’s day when you stop managing them.

00:00:00 — Intro

00:01:27 — What Does the “Dark Side” of Personality Actually Mean?

00:03:51 — The 11 Patterns That Can Derail a Leader

00:06:48 — How Do You React When You’re Under Pressure?

00:15:52 — Why Do Derailers Stay Hidden During Hiring?

00:22:05 — When Does a Strength Become a Derailer?

00:25:51 — Why Does Stress Bring Out Our Worst Leadership Behaviors?

00:34:08 — How Can HR Spot Derailers Before They Wreck the Culture?

00:44:14 — How Do You Tell a Leader They’re Ruining the Vibes?

00:49:22 — What Are Orgs Getting Wrong About Choosing Leaders?

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Hogan Assessments is the international leader in personality insights.

With the world’s largest database of personality research and decades’ worth of experience in psychometrics, Hogan produces valid, reliable personality assessments that measure everyday strengths, potential shortcomings, and values and motivators.

Hogan’s solutions empower organizations to hire the right people without bias, boost productivity, reduce turnover, promote diversity and inclusion, identify high-potential talent, develop leaders, and inspire employees to do their best.

To learn more, check them out at ⁠http://hogan.to/ihateithere⁠

---

And if you love I Hate It Here, sign up to Hebba’s newsletter! It’s for jaded, overworked, and emotionally burnt-out HR/People Operations professionals needing a little inspiration.⁠https://workweek.com/discover-newsletters/i-hate-it-here-newsletter/⁠

And if you love the podcast, be sure to check out https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here⁠ for even more exclusive insider content!

---

Follow Jocelyn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynhays/



Follow Hebba:

YouTube:⁠ https://www.youtube.com/@ihateit-here/videos⁠

LinkedIn:⁠ https://linkedin.com/in/hebba-youssef⁠

Twitter:⁠ https://twitter.com/hebbamyoussef⁠