Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

We are living in interesting times if you’re a Christian in America. Open social media for a second on any given day and you can see outrage on one side and celebration on the other for those who follow Jesus.

How are we supposed to navigate times like these?

What are we supposed to believe? How are we supposed to think? What should followers of Jesus do in times like this?

I don’t have all the answers, but I appreciate bold voices who help us make sense of the chaos. One of those voices is Brittany Packnett Cunningham.

Brittany is an activist, an educator, a writer, and a leader who spends her time at the intersection of culture, justice, and policy. She doesn’t just live in the realm of lofty ideas, but is actively working to make life better for the most vulnerable in society. Brittany is also a Christian.

In this conversation we talk about her faith journey. We share stories of my journey growing up in white evangelicalism and her first encounter with white evangelicalism.

We talk about what it means to follow Jesus today. How our faith should influence our voting and our politics. No matter what side of the political spectrum you are on, Brittany has something to teach us if we’re willing to listen.

This is David Santistevan and you can reach me anytime with questions, guest recommendations, complaints, or criticisms at [email protected]

As always, thank you so much for listening.

Topics Covered:

Brittany’s faith tradition growing up

The need for liberation theology and what it means for the local church

The importance of unlearning and contextualizing theology

Noticing how white supremacy undermines the prosperity of black people

The defunding of HBCUs and what that means for black thriving in America

What it means to be a red letter Christian

Politics and faith

The prophetic witness of the Black Church

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Brittany on Instagram

Brittany on Threads

Brittany’s Website

The Black Church in the African American Experience by C. Eric Lincoln & Lawrence H. Mamiya

Jesus And John Wayne by Kristen Kobes Du Mez

Podcast cover art photography: https://www.bepureblack.com/

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #381: Evangelicalism, Justice Work, And Red Letter Christianity with Brittany Packnett Cunningham appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

This is an episode for the ministry underdog. There are some unwritten, unhelpful rules about worship ministry and Christian music that we need to say out loud. You’re too old. Your voice isn’t strong enough. You’re too overweight. Your style isn’t what we’re going for. You can’t be the face of the ministry.

Of course, we don’t say these things out loud, most of the time. But it appears that too often our modus operandi is to be attractive and impressive, beautiful. How are we going to sell the most records? Who is going to draw people to our church? The longer we operate with these cultural values, the more we sideline great leaders and harm them in the process. I’m not advocating anyone could be a worship leader. Obviously, there are skill standards. But how far is too far when it comes to talent, image, beauty, and age? At what point have we abandoned kingdom values for profit, power, and influence?

Calvin Nowell is my guest today. Calvin is a songwriter, worship leader, and singer who has sung with many of the top names in Christian Music. Calvin also leads a diverse music collective called Aware Worship that is bringing awareness to the people side of ministry.

This is vulnerable conversation. We talk about the dark sides of the industry, stigma in ministry, supporting the underdog, and looking for Jesus on the margins. Tears were shed. The presence of God was felt. Trust me, you will be encouraged.

My name is David Santistevan. As always, thanks for listening. You can reach me anytime at [email protected].

Topics Covered:

Calvin’s journey as a worship leader

The reality of starting music later in life

Why we shouldn’t be afraid of frequent new songs

Why diversity is important

How the Christian music industry needs to change

Why God still has a plan for you

The struggle of weight and image as a worship leader

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Aware Worship

Instagram.com/calvinnowell

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #380: Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

It’s becoming almost a tradition that when I need to talk about something really difficult, I invite David Gate on the Podcast. David is a former worship leader, recording artist turned author who has a keen eye about what is happening in the world. And he’s not afraid to tell it like it is. David wrote an article recently called “The Soundtrack For American Fascism is Worship Music” – I know, pretty intense. But also not entirely hard to believe, if you’re paying attention.

In this conversation we talk about it – how worship music can be co-opted to serve anti-Christian political agendas. How easy it is for our Christianity to become enmeshed with our politics to the point where we can’t tell where one begins and the other ends. We look historically at how Hitler co-opted the music of Wagner to serve his political aims. How worship music can be manipulative in healthy and unhealthy ways. We talk about choosing songs and what to do if you’re tired of mainstream, popular worship music. The conversation ends with some music recommendations and thoughts on David’s creative process.

This is a difficult chat, but a great one. You’ll be uncomfortable frequently. You may disagree some. But I guarantee it will challenge your thinking and improve your ministry life if you allow it.

This is David Santistevan. You can email me any time at [email protected]. As always, thanks for listening.

Topics Covered:

When David first noticed the politicization of American worship music

What David liked and disliked about the worship industry, as an insider

The musician similarities and differences between worship music and Wagner

How Hitler co-opted Wagner to serve his political agenda

Why it’s not crazy to consider how worship music can serve authoritarian regimes

Paying attention to how worship music can manipulate a room

The difference between empathy and worship

Healthy and unhealthy triumphalism in church

Debrief of the Charlie Kirk memorial and what we can learn from it

Pro football/College football and racism

What to do if you can’t stomach singing popular worship music in church

A true definition of Christian persecution

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

David Gate

The Soundtrack For American Fascism is Worship Music by David Gate

A Rebellion of Care: Poems & Essays by David Gate

Nested in Tangles by Hannah Frances

Baby by Dijon

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #379: When Worship Gets Political with David Gate appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

What is the future of worship leading? How important are worship leaders and how will that role continue to develop in the future? No one really knows, but it’s worth reflecting on. My guest today is Martha Munizzi – veteran gospel artist, songwriter, worship leader and co-pastor at epic life church in Orlando. This is an interesting conversation because Martha has the perspective of a worship leader and a pastor.

We talk about the tension of excellent worship experiences as it relates to church growth and simple congregational worship where the voice of the people take center stage. Practical ways to do simple worship without losing excellence. We talk about the beauty of gospel music and where it’s headed. How to empower young worship leaders and what the older generation can learn from them. We also hear the story of how Martha brilliantly forced her way onto my podcast. It’s kind of hilarious.

Topics Covered:

How Martha got started in music

Why Martha decided to write and pursue gospel music

Why worship is so important

How to empower younger worship leaders

How to simplify worship in a production-heavy age

The future of Gospel music

The story behind Martha’s new project, “Church is Revival”

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Church is Revival by Martha Munizzi

Epic Life Church

Martha Munizzi website

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #378: Why It’s OK To Simplify Our Worship Experiences with Martha Munizzi appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Justice – when you hear that word what do you think of? The word carries some baggage in the church today and has become highly politicized. Too much justice talk and you can be dismissed as Marxist, woke, or a proponent of the “unbiblical” social justice gospel. But if you can remove yourself from cultural baggage, read the Bible with fresh eyes, and look at the life of Jesus, you see justice everywhere. Justice was central to the life and mission of Jesus. And it should be to his followers as well.

One of the best books I’ve read on the topic is a new book by Joash Thomas called The Justice of Jesus: Reimagining Your Church’s Life Together to Pursue Liberation And Wholeness.

Talking about justice shouldn’t cause us to draw tighter partisan political lines. It should cause us – as Joash says – to be politically agnostic, except on behalf of our marginalized neighbors.

This is an eye-opening conversation. He talk about how colonization has shaped the Western church to resist justice. Why we need more teaching on justice and not less. Why it’s important to diversity our theological influences. And some practical ways any local church can pursue justice.

Joash is a kind soul with a deep understanding of justice and Christianity in the global south and what we can learn in the west…from followers of Jesus all over the world.

Topics Covered:

How “wokeism” and “Marxism” have become deflective tactics to keep us from facing the truth

Why the Evangelical Church needs more teaching on justice

How colonization and colonialism has shaped us to resist justice

Why it’s good for our formation to diversify our theological influences

Why Christians should be politically agnostic

Practical ways the church today can pursue justice

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

The Justice of Jesus: Reimagining Your Church’s Life Together To Pursue Liberation And Wholeness by Joash Thomas

Joash Thomas website

Joash Thomas instagram

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

The post #377: How The Western Church Has Been Shaped To Resist Justice (And What We Can Do About It) with Joash P. Thomas appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.