Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

Topics Covered:

Jason’s adoption story and upbringing

Learning about God from different streams of historic Christianity

Why worship is more than just expression

Whether Jason sees himself as a worship leader

The pressure to be a Christian influencer

When to be spontaneous in worship

Song stories

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible (50% off)

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Mothers & Fathers, Sisters & Sons by Jason Upton

Raids on the Unspeakable by Thomas Merton

Show Sponsor #1: Dwell Bible

This episode is brought to you by the Dwell Bible app. Did you have big plans to listen to the Bible in a Year in 2026, but life seemed to get in the way?

Maybe it’s been a few years since you worked through a Bible listening plan, and now you’re feeling the itch to dive back in. Or perhaps this is your first time hearing about a Bible listening plan.

Wherever you find yourself today, Dwell has something special just for you!

Beginning October 1, you can dive into the New Testament in just three months! It’s the perfect way to get back on track or start fresh, by listening to the Bible! It’s never been more easy to fit a Bible plan into your active lifestyle.

You can choose from multiple NT in 90 Day plans like:

The Genre Plan – which groups books by their theme, taking you through the Gospels, Epistles, and Prophecy in a way that highlights their connections and differences

The Historical Plan – which takes you through the New Testament as it was likely written, offering a unique historical perspective

The Straight Thru Plan – which takes you through the traditional order, from the life of Jesus through the growth of the early church

And remember, with Dwell, you’re not just listening—you’re experiencing the Bible. You can choose from a variety of amazing voices, set the perfect background music, and even adjust the speed to match your pace.

To subscribe to a new plan now, head over to dwellbible.com/beyondsunday for 50% off today and so you’re ready to start on October 1st!

Show Sponsor #2: Planning Center

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.

To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.

The post #403: A Fresh Perspective On Worship with Jason Upton appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

If you’re a follower of Jesus, you know you’re supposed to share your faith.We’re supposed to tell others about Jesus. But it’s often a topic that gives any Christian anxiety. What if I don’t know how to articulate what I believe? What if someone asks me a difficult question I don’t know how to answer?

What if I’m a terrible Christian, fail in my defense, get laughed at, and the name of Christ is disrespected because I don’t know what I’m talking about?

Take a deep breath…

Lisa Fields is the CEO and founder of Jude 3 Project, a leading apologetics organization dedicated to equipping the Black community with the tools to know what they believe and why they believe it. As a renowned Christian apologist, speaker, author, and film producer, she has been a driving force in shapi ng conversations on faith, theology, and culture.She is the author of two books When Faith Disappoints and When Heroes Fall. She has also contributed to two additional books, Cultural Engagement: A Crash Course in Contemporary Issues and Urban Apologetics: Cults and Cultural Ideologies.

I wanted to talk to Lisa about her unique way of doing apologetics, what it’s like being a black women in a field of study that primarily consists of white men, deconstruction and reconstruction, and how to navigate leadership scandal as both organizations and individuals.

Topics Covered:

Lisa’s story

Healthy and unhealthy ways to approach apologetics

Deconstruction and reconstruction

Healthy accountability for pastors and churches

What to do when a leader falls

The challenge of being a black woman in a white male-dominated space (apologetics)

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

When Faith Disappoints by Lisa Fields

When Heroes Fall by Lisa Fields

Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer

Bullies And Saints by John Dickson

People of the Lie by M. Scott Peck

Show Sponsor #1: Dwell Bible

This episode is brought to you by the Dwell Bible app. Did you have big plans to listen to the Bible in a Year in 2026, but life seemed to get in the way?

Maybe it’s been a few years since you worked through a Bible listening plan, and now you’re feeling the itch to dive back in. Or perhaps this is your first time hearing about a Bible listening plan.

Wherever you find yourself today, Dwell has something special just for you!

Beginning October 1, you can dive into the New Testament in just three months! It’s the perfect way to get back on track or start fresh, by listening to the Bible! It’s never been more easy to fit a Bible plan into your active lifestyle.

You can choose from multiple NT in 90 Day plans like:

The Genre Plan – which groups books by their theme, taking you through the Gospels, Epistles, and Prophecy in a way that highlights their connections and differences

The Historical Plan – which takes you through the New Testament as it was likely written, offering a unique historical perspective

The Straight Thru Plan – which takes you through the traditional order, from the life of Jesus through the growth of the early church

And remember, with Dwell, you’re not just listening—you’re experiencing the Bible. You can choose from a variety of amazing voices, set the perfect background music, and even adjust the speed to match your pace.

To subscribe to a new plan now, head over to dwellbible.com/beyondsunday for 50% off today and so you’re ready to start on October 1st!

Show Sponsor #2: Planning Center

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.

To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.

The post #402: Apologetics, Disappointing Faith, And When Heroes Fall with Lisa Fields appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

Maya Angelou once said, “”History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, however, if faced with courage, need not be lived again.”

The discipline of reading and studying history is not to make us feel good. It’s to instruct us so we don’t repeat the same mistakes.

One of the greatest living historians of American Christianity is Kristin Kobes Du Mez. Her book Jesus And John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation explores how American evangelicalism embraced militant masculinity and Christian nationalism. It was released in 2020 and was a worldwide bestseller. It’s not an easy book to ready, but helps to make sense of so much what we’re seeing in America today.

Her new book Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made is another tour de force. It’s a sweeping history about Christian women, but it’s not only for women to read. We break it down in this interview and talk about 19th century holiness evangelicalism, the widespread influence of Hannah Whitall Smith and her book “A Christian’s Secret to a Happy Life”, the marketing machine of American religion, influential women artists in Christian music, why it’s impossible to be apolitical, and why we need to pay attention to stories of spiritual abuse.

Historians are not our enemies, even if they tell us what we don’t want to hear. Be prepared to be surprised, infuriated, challenged, and motivated to work towards a healthier church.

Topics Covered:

The surprising success of Jesus And John Wayne

What the critics of J&JW are saying

Why critiquing evangelical culture is so challenging

Why Kristin was talking about Doug Wilson before he was national news

The origins of Live Laugh Love

Hannah Whitall Smith and her influence on Christian women’s culture

19th century holiness evangelicalism and it’s influence today

The marketing machine of American religion

Why it’s impossible to be apolitical

Why what is marketed as biblical is not always biblical

The fascinating and tragic story of Elizabeth Elliot

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible App

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

Live Laugh Love by Kristin Kobes Du Mez

Jesus And John Wayne by Kristin Kobes Du Mez

All The Frequent Troubles of Our Days by Rebecca Donner

Show Sponsor #1: Dwell Bible

This episode is brought to you by the Dwell Bible app. Did you have big plans to listen to the Bible in a Year in 2026, but life seemed to get in the way?

Maybe it’s been a few years since you worked through a Bible listening plan, and now you’re feeling the itch to dive back in. Or perhaps this is your first time hearing about a Bible listening plan.

Wherever you find yourself today, Dwell has something special just for you!

Beginning October 1, you can dive into the New Testament in just three months! It’s the perfect way to get back on track or start fresh, by listening to the Bible! It’s never been more easy to fit a Bible plan into your active lifestyle.

You can choose from multiple NT in 90 Day plans like:

The Genre Plan – which groups books by their theme, taking you through the Gospels, Epistles, and Prophecy in a way that highlights their connections and differences

The Historical Plan – which takes you through the New Testament as it was likely written, offering a unique historical perspective

The Straight Thru Plan – which takes you through the traditional order, from the life of Jesus through the growth of the early church

And remember, with Dwell, you’re not just listening—you’re experiencing the Bible. You can choose from a variety of amazing voices, set the perfect background music, and even adjust the speed to match your pace.

To subscribe to a new plan now, head over to dwellbible.com/beyondsunday for 50% off today and so you’re ready to start on October 1st!

Show Sponsor #2: Planning Center

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.

To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.

The post #401: How Studying History Can Help The Church Tell The Truth, Face Reality, & Confront Harmful Systems with Kristin Kobes Du Mez appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

A question I have wrestled with is…what makes the CHURCH different in the midst of our modern culture? What makes our local churches different than what other organizations have to offer?

What happens when our local churches become oriented merely towards pragmatism?

That’s what I talk about with Pastor and Author Brian Zahnd. Brian is the pastor of Word of Life Church in St. Joseph, MO and is no stranger to the Beyond Sunday Podcast. He has a new book called Unseen Existences: Of Heaven, Earth, and the Divine Mystery in All Things.

This is a conversation about the church. About the Bible. About the sacraments. About wonder, mystery, awe, and what happens when we lose our sense of transcendence.

If you’re a pastor, a worship leader, a Christian artist, or a follower of Jesus…there is something here that will reorient you towards hope and beauty in an age of cynicism, nationalism, and deconstruction. There is another way.

Topics Covered:

The alternative to Christian Nationalism and endless deconstruction

How evangelicalism forsook mystery and embraced empiricism

How the Christian Right and the Christian Left co-opt Christ for political ends

Good vs bad apologetics

A spiritual vs a literal reading of the text of Holy Scripture

The value of trying on different interpretive lenses when it comes to Scripture

Recapturing mystery

Resources Mentioned

Atheist Delusions by David Bentley Hart

Lonesome Dove by Larry McMurtry

Unseen Existences by Brian Zahnd

Make Your Home In This Luminous Dark by James K.A. Smith

Magnifica Humanitas by Pope Leo XIV

Crucified and Resurrected by Ingolf Dalferth

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.

To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.

The post #400: A Hopeful Alternative to Christian Nationalism And Deconstruction with Pastor Brian Zahnd appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

If you’ve listened to this podcast at all in the past, you probably have some connection to either Christian music or worship music. Maybe you love it and worship music and Christian radio helps you get through the day. Maybe you’re a worship leader, always on the lookout for great worship songs for your church to sing.

But maybe you have a love/hate relationship with the Christian music industry. You’ve been burned by it. You’ve seen how the sausage is made.

This is a tension I hold. I love worship music. It’s been deeply formative in my life. But there is a current that exists where worship and worship music becomes primarily about profit. And that is a scary and confusing place to be.

That’s what I’m talking with Gable Price about. If you don’t know who Gable Price is, turn off this podcast immediately and go stream his music. It is well written, honest, and perfectly crated rock and roll that defies the Christian music label. A true breath of fresh air in an industry that can often feel stale. And Gable is just a great guy who will make you smile.

We talk about living in New York City. Gable’s formative days in the Vineyard Church. His deal with Bethel Music and why he left. And why he’s more excited than he’s ever been about making music.

Topics Covered:

The influence of NYC on GP’s music

Fracturing faith and returning to faith

GP’s early years in the Vineyard

Protecting worship from selfish ambition

The challenge of worship being your job

On the CCM industry

The story behind “Too Good”

Dream artist collabs

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

The Magician’s Nephew by CS Lewis

The Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien

The Prophetic Imagination by Walter Brueggmann

Live No Lies by John Mark Comer

Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller

A Long Obedience in the Same Direction by Eugene Peterson

My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church.

Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore.

Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip.

Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap.

Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this:

In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling.

Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords.

To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog.

The post #399: The Worship Industry, Christian Music, & Rediscovering Faith with Gable Price appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.