The AI XR Podcast

Shelley Palmer,media technologist, advisor, and author with over 700,000 daily newsletter subscribers, returns to the show. He's one of the sharpest thinkers writing about AI today, and this conversation covers the full arc: from social media liability to the trust collapse coming for all of us, and into the real productivity gains and surveillance trade-offs of living inside an AI-first workflow.
The episode opens with the Google and Meta lawsuit verdict and quickly moves past the legal question. Shelley's position is precise: you can't legislate parenting, but you can legislate transparency, and the tech industry has failed on that front entirely. The $6 million judgment against Meta and Google is a rounding error — not a deterrent. What matters is what platforms actually engineered: engagement above all else, backed by neuroscience, probabilistic math, and dopamine feedback loops optimized for shareholders, not users.
AI XR News You Should Know: OpenAI is ending Sora and pivoting hard to Codex and enterprise. Ben Affleck secured $900 million from Netflix for a custom AI filmmaking tool. Epic Games cut 1,000 jobs as Fortnite loses audience. NVIDIA's Jensen Huang introduced Nemo Claw and Open Shell at GTC — a corporatized framework for personal AI agents.
Key Moments
[00:01:15] – Charlie opens noting the show missed one episode in nearly 300 — his daughter's wedding
[00:01:55] – OpenAI kills Sora; the Critters director goes dark before the episode
[00:04:45] – Google and Meta lose their social media addiction lawsuit; Meta also loses in New Mexico
[00:08:07] – Shelley on what can actually be legislated: not parenting, but transparency
[00:11:42] – Shelley on Zuckerberg: he genuinely believed connection would be net positive; ask him today
[00:13:31] – "Planetarily net negative. No matter what good it does, it does more harm."
[00:18:16] – Rony on dopamine engineering: neuroscientists studying pixel size, color, sound to refine addiction
[00:19:40] – Shelley reframes it: engagement maximization for shareholders, no more insidious than that
[00:23:19] – The physiological change argument: humans evolved to default to trust; AI-generated everything breaks that
[00:31:50] – Rony's counterpoint: trust will reset local; the software ecosystem will follow
[00:36:53] – Shelley: "Our business increased last year. Everyone on my staff is doing 400 times the work."
[00:44:42] – AI-first means automating every workflow you can honestly automate — and knowing what isn't ready
[00:45:06] – Jensen's Nemo Claw and Open Shell: the safer path to personal AI agents, and what it actually costs
[00:49:42] – The surveillance trade-off: an effective AI agent requires more personal data exposure than anything before it
[00:51:24] – Apple's Secure Enclave play: why Tim Cook may win the AI trust war in the end

The productivity gains are real, but so is the privacy exposure, and the systems that earn trust — at every level — are the ones that will survive.
This episode is brought to you by Zappar, the company behind Mattercraft — the leading visual development environment for building immersive 3D web experiences across mobile, headsets, and desktop. Mattercraft now features an AI assistant that helps you design, code, and debug in real time, right in your browser.
Start building at mattercraft.io. Subscribe to the AI XR Podcast wherever you listen.
Watch the full episode for the full breakdown. Available where podcasts are. Full videos available on YouTube. https://youtu.be/S_AECjELYyo
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Cathy Hackl, futurist for Nokia and advisor to the Boston Consulting Group (BCG), joins the podcast to discuss her fascinating work across the Middle East and her insights on the next generation of AI and connectivity. Learn how nations like the UAE and KSA are strategically positioning themselves to lead in spatial computing, quantum supremacy, and a hopeful, future-forward vision of AI.
Cathy details her work in the Middle East, including her residency in the UAE and her advisory roles on massive projects like NEOM and Qiddiya, explaining how these regions are embracing technology as a means to modernize. She shares her perspective on the shift in global venture capital, noting how Europe and the Middle East are providing significant funding that is moving beyond traditional Silicon Valley terms.
AI XR News You Should Know:
The hosts discuss massive AI funding rounds, including a $1 billion seed round for Advanced Machine Intelligence and a $500 million round for Mind Robotics, highlighting the intense capital war for chips and the boom in robotics. They also cover the rise of YouTube as the world's largest media company and the ethical questions surrounding the collection of human data to train robots.
Key Moments
[00:01:19] Intro: Friday the 13th and geopolitical news.
[00:02:17] Mind Robotics & Advanced Machine Intelligence: Discussing the $500M and $1B seed rounds for robotics and AI startups.
[00:04:04] Headband Camera for Robot Training: Debate on the ethics of companies paying people to wear cameras to collect training data for robots, comparing it to "Gargoyles" from Snow Crash.
[00:10:12] YouTube Surpasses Disney & Netflix: Discussion on YouTube becoming the world’s largest media company with $62 billion in revenue.
[00:11:29] AI & Media Market Dominance: Questioning whether today’s AI music and video companies will eventually surpass all big film, music, and streaming companies.
[00:14:40] Cathy Hackl Interview Begins: Cathy discusses her work as a futurist for Nokia, focusing on AI-native networks.
[00:16:26] KSA Projects: Cathy's experience working on the virtual and gaming strategy for Qiddiya and on the KSA Pavilion at the World Expo.
[00:22:07] Golden Visa & Gifted Residency: The privileges associated with becoming a resident of the UAE or KSA for highly skilled talent.

This conversation offers a vital global perspective on technology, innovation, and culture that is often missed when focusing solely on Silicon Valley. Understanding these geopolitical and technological movements is key for anyone trying to anticipate where the next wave of global innovation will truly come from.
This episode of The AI XR Podcast is brought to you by Zappar, the folks behind Mattercraft, a leading visual development environment for building immersive 3D web experiences—mattercraft.io.
Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or watch the full episode on YouTube. https://youtu.be/Mw0yM_qpGG8

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Co-founders Dr. Salman Avestimehr and Dr. Aiden He join the podcast to discuss their new "agentic" company, Teamily AI. They dive into how their platform is disrupting the social landscape by weaving multi-agent AI into group chats, enabling groups, friends, and families to interact with virtual friends, essentially creating a collaborative environment where AI acts as a participant that anticipates needs and remembers the full context of a conversation.
This conversation explores the core value proposition of an AI-first social platform—not just making an individual superhuman, but enabling a collective of human and AI agents to do "fascinating things together." The founders detail their technology, which is built on deep expertise in distributed machine learning and multi-agent systems, and their long-term vision to IPO and evolve the very nature of social networks by bridging the gap between human and artificial intelligence.
In the news segment, Charlie Fink and Rony Abovitz unpack the week's biggest AI stories: Ben Affleck selling his stealth AI film company, Interpositive, to Netflix; Anthropic's Claude briefly dethroning OpenAI's ChatGPT in the app store; and a deep dive into Jack Dorsey's company Block cutting 4,000 employees. The hosts also discuss the social fallout of AI acceleration, particularly the counter-movement seeking tactile, real-world connection and the economic risk of displacing white-collar data analysts.
Key Moments
00:03:00 – App Store War: Discussing Anthropic's Claude topping the app charts and why the US Department of Defense will use the best AI system regardless of corporate objection.
00:04:00 – Hollywood's AI Play: Netflix acquiring Ben Affleck's AI company, Interpositive, which uses unedited film dailies to train an AI for editing and optimization.
00:05:00 – The Mediocrity Threat: Rony Abovitz's take on the risk of AI creating a "very, very long tail of Okay" content, leading to a cultural sameness.
00:07:00 – Counter-Culture: Exploring the growing emotional need for "something real" and a massive movement away from purely digital experiences.
00:09:00 – The White-Collar Risk: The hosts argue that the white-collar data analyst is the worker "most easy to replace" by AI, contrasting with the high value of blue-collar workers.
00:11:00 – The "Oh Wow" Moment: Charlie Fink describes his first experience with Teamily AI, noting the immediate power of real-time, multi-person and multi-agent prompting.
00:13:00 – The Science Behind Teamily: Dr. Aiden He, PhD in Machine Learning, explains how Teamily is built upon his previous research in distributed learning and multi-agent systems.
00:26:00 – Global Memory: Aiden details Teamily's unique "cross domain, long horizon memory," which allows the AI to combine human-human chat context with human-AI memory for a more natural interaction.

The biggest takeaway is the conceptual shift from using AI as a solo productivity tool to using it as a collaborative team member. The path to the next phase of social networking hinges on building platforms where AI is not isolated but is a natural, evolving part of a human community.
This episode of The AI XR Podcast is brought to you by Zappar, the folks behind Mattercraft, a leading visual development environment for building immersive 3D web experiences for mobile headsets and desktop. Start building smarter at mattercraft.io.
Listen and subscribe to the AI XR Podcast wherever you get your podcasts! Watch the full thing on YouTube https://youtu.be/s78WZJSfGeo.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

What does a Lion King–level director really think about AI “slop,” streaming wars and whether machines can ever tell great stories? On this episode of the AI XR Podcast, Charlie Fink and Ted Schilowitz talk with Rob Minkoff, director of The Lion King, Stuart Little, The Haunted Mansion, Forbidden Kingdom and Paws of Fury, about the future of filmmaking as AI, streaming consolidation and new tools reshape the business.
Rob shares how he watched Netflix “eat Hollywood” by doing streaming better than the legacy studios, why Netflix walking away from Warner Bros. and letting Paramount overpay is bad news for creators, and what fewer buyers means for directors and writers trying to sell original work. He explains why he sees AI tools like Seed Dance as potentially both iceberg and Noah’s Ark, and why he believes the average will rise but the cream will still rise higher: tools may let anyone make competent images, but audiences will still chase the one-in-a-thousand voices that have something genuinely new and human to say.
In XR News You Should Know, the host cover Anthropic’s standoff with the Pentagon over using large, unstable models for high-stakes military decisions, Netflix walking away from a Warner Bros. deal and collecting a breakup fee while Paramount overpays, streaming brand confusion around HBO/Max and Paramount+, VITURE’s new raise and its patent fight with XREAL over “birdbath” smart-glasses optics, and Google’s Gemini gaining multi-step action capabilities on Samsung and Pixel phones before Apple’s Siri catches up.
The conversation digs into whether AI will really make feature films cheaper and more common, or just flood social feeds with short-form “AI slop.” Rob compares AI tools to word processors and home recording studios: they are powerful, but they don’t turn you into Bruce Springsteen or Steven Spielberg. He argues that empathy, taste and genuinely fresh perspective will remain the differentiators, and that audiences will quickly tune out work that feels derivative, even if it looks slick. He also raises a bigger question: if AI drives productivity to the point where work is optional for many people, what happens to purpose, competition and the human psyche?
Key Moments
01:16 – Anthropic vs. the Pentagon and why unstable AI systems may never meet military safety standards
02:42 – Netflix exits the Warner Bros. deal, collects a breakup fee and leaves Paramount holding the bag
05:31 – HBO, Max, Paramount+ branding confusion and what happens to these streaming labels
06:00 – VITURE’s $100M raise, XREAL patent lawsuits and the simple science behind “birdbath” smart glasses
07:31 – Why Miami is becoming a new tech and defense hub and what that signals about America’s “neighborhood”
10:00 – Seed Dance 2.0, Hollywood’s deepfake panic and the “ship first, apologize later” strategy
15:16 – Rob joins: 34 years in film, Netflix “eating Hollywood” and what consolidation means for creators
19:18 – Seed Dance, stolen IP and whether AI tools are an iceberg or Noah’s Ark for filmmakers
24:39 – Can AI become a true “prophet,” or can it only emulate empathy and taste?
30:57 – Will AI make many more animated movies or just flood the world with average content?
37:32 – If AI does most of the work, what’s left for humans—and can entertainment absorb all that free time?

This episode is a grounded, filmmaker’s view of where AI fits: powerful tools, real risks, but no substitute for a human vision that cuts through the noise. Rob’s perspective is invaluable if you’re trying to understand what will actually matter in a world where everyone can generate “good enough” images on demand.
This episode is brought to you by Zappar, creators of Mattercraft, the leading visual development environment for building immersive 3D web experiences for mobile, headsets and desktop. To explore what’s possible with AI-powered XR on the web, start building smarter with Mattercraft from Zappar at Mattercraft.io.
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Vicki Dobbs Beck, the former head of ILMxLab and a 34-year veteran of Lucasfilm/Disney, joins Charlie Fink, Ted Schilowitz, and Rony Abovitz for a candid look back at her incredible career navigating the tech and cultural shifts inside one of Hollywood's most powerful empires. Though she announced her retirement, it was quickly delayed to take an interim lead position at the George Lucas Educational Foundation's Lucas Learning, focusing on project-based simulations for middle school—a return to a career passion she started in the early 90s.
Vicki shares the core, "rebel alliance" strategy that made ILMxLab a success—sustained innovation, industry acknowledgment, and financial self-sufficiency—and tells the terrifying story of pushing the Quest 1 headset to its absolute limits for the launch of Vader Immortal. She discusses the crucial lessons learned from pivoting the development to center the player in the story, transforming the experience from a "spatial film" to a personal journey, and the importance of slowing the pacing down for a new art form like VR.
Before the interview, the hosts dissect a week of massive raises in AI (World Labs' $1B, Recursive Intelligence's $335M), the strategic shifts of tech giants like Palantir to Miami, and the intensifying race in wearables with Apple, Meta, and OpenAI all developing new devices like pendants and glasses.
Key Moments
00:03:17 – World Labs & Unity AI: Discussing the $1B World Labs raise for 3D world generation and Unity's plans to build AI into its game engine to make it accessible to non-developers.
00:06:11 – The Miami Tech Hub: Rony Abovitz on why founders like Zuckerberg, Bezos, Larry, and Sergei are moving to Miami—it’s more than just taxes, it’s about a new “America strategy.”
00:12:30 – Apple Watch as Wearables Base: Ted Schilowitz argues Apple already has the micro-technology (from the Apple Watch) to dominate the wearables space, but the underperformance of Siri held them back.
00:27:00 – LaserDisc Learning: Vicki's early career in Lucasfilm Learning using cutting-edge but bulky computer-driven laser disc players for educational multimedia.
00:28:57 – VR is 'Outsized': Ted's thesis that immersive technology has historically been overfunded and over-expected to return a profit, contrasting with the "rebel alliance" approach.
00:34:45 – The Quest 1 Launch Scare: The terrifying moment before the Vader Immortal launch when a tiny software update broke the app because ILMxLab had pushed the Quest hardware to its absolute maximum.
00:42:11 – The Void & Full VR Power: Charlie, Ted, and Vicki discuss why location-based VR like Star Wars: Secrets of the Empire (The Void) represents the exotic, "Ferrari version" of VR that most commercial users never experience.

This conversation is a masterclass in pioneering entertainment technology. Vicki Dobbs Beck's experience shows that the path to a sustainable, breakthrough product like Vader Immortal requires a clear, rebel-alliance-style strategy, a willingness to pivot on core design principles (spatial film vs. player-centric experience), and a deep understanding of the hardware's limits—or lack thereof. It highlights the essential tension between commercial scale and the pursuit of the 'ultimate' immersive experience.
Catch the AI XR Podcast where you get podcasts and watch full video episodes on YouTube. https://youtu.be/vguuHDmaSbs
This episode of The AI XR Podcast is brought to you by Zappar, the folks behind Mattercraft. Mattercraft is the leading visual development environment for building immersive 3D web experiences for mobile, headsets, and desktop, and now features an AI assistant to help you design, code, and debug in real time right in your browser.
Start building smarter at mattercraft.io. Listen and subscribe to The AI XR Podcast wherever you get your shows.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.