The Imperfects

Do you feel the type of exhaustion that just doesn’t go away, even after a few good nights of sleep? Do you feel yourself becoming emotionally distant from your kids to protect yourself from huge emotions? Have you noticed that you’re feeling less joy from parenting moment? You might be in parental burnout.
This episode isn’t about judgement, at all. Rather, we welcome you to an episode of the Imperfects which aims to make you feel seen, less guilty, less alone, as we’re joined by the very special two guests, Missy Higgins and Dr Emily Musgrove.
💌 To join our journaling club, with 10,100 + others, subscribe to my imperfect email - https://www.theimperfects.com.au/sign-up-to-our-newsletter/
We touch on the difference between depression and parental burnout, the risk factors of parental burnout, the perfect mother myth, and how to deal with perfectionistic tendencies.
There SO MANY helpful things in this episode, and stories from Hugh, Josh, Missy and Em to make you feel like a good enough parent.
Chapters

00:00:00 TRAILER
00:01:34 Missy returns: singer, songwriter and single parent
00:05:20 Hugh's Burnout: When Everything Felt Impossible
00:08:14 Defining Parental Burnout: It's Not About Your Kids
00:12:58 Depression vs Burnout: How to Tell the Difference
00:23:35 The Shock of Parenthood: Nobody Told Us It Would Be Like This
00:29:06 My Cortisol is Where?!
00:33:44 Escape Fantasies
00:36:27 Our Parents Had It Easier: Tennis, Newspapers & Benign Neglect
00:40:13 Perfectionism: The Biggest Risk Factor for Burnout
00:46:13 The Chicken Nugget Meltdown: When Missy Snapped
00:49:59 The Perfect Mother Myth: Intensive Motherhood Ideology
00:52:34 Mental load, resentment + your partner
00:58:55 Single Parenting & Separation: Missy's Experience
01:09:52 Asking for Help: Why It's So Hard & Why We Must
01:13:48 Rest is productive!
01:24:07 Dropping your standards: becoming a good enough parent
01:30:12 A Little More Imperfects

🫖Imperfects episodes mentioned in this episode
Hugh van Cuylenburg - This Is Burnout - https://bit.ly/4yXsUEB
Missy Higgins - Quitting Music, Depression & Connection - https://bit.ly/4eetAhh
The Vulnerabilitea House - Missy Higgins - https://bit.ly/4Ai1sm5
Zoë Foster Blake - Perimenopause, ADHD & Everything That Helped with Dr Fatima Khan - https://bit.ly/4iqLS1d
Dr Louise Newson - Maybe It’s Menopause - https://bit.ly/4ekisQ1
Dr Lousie Newson - It’s Hormones. Period. - https://bit.ly/4kznVWU
Dr Edna Lekgabe - New Baby … New Brain … Matrescence. - https://bit.ly/4jTko5B
Maggie Dent - ‘Good Enough’ Parenting is Good Enough - https://bit.ly/4sFhFyO
Chrissie Swan - Honesty - https://bit.ly/4yWmgOJ
How To Audit Your Mental Load with Prof. Leah Ruppanner - https://bit.ly/4f7g4fB
📚Things to research
Parental Burnout Assessment by Isabelle Roskam, Moira Mikolajczak & Maria-Elena Brianda - https://bit.ly/4sGktvL
Vivek Murphy’s Advisory on Parental Stress - https://bit.ly/48DLeaM
The Cultural Contradictions of Motherhood, by Sharon Hays - https://bit.ly/4z1nXus
The Child, The Family, and the Outside World, by Donald Winnicott - https://bit.ly/3X7fE2H
📺 Things to watch
Girls - https://bit.ly/4BGo413
🩷For More Missy
GET TICKETS HERE - https://www.missyhiggins.com
Listen to A Complicated Truth here, https://bit.ly/4ztZoY8
🩷To host your own Vulnerabilitea House, purchase here - theimperfects.com.au/shop
🩵To purchase our journal (or your novel) My Imperfect Life, click here - theimperfects.com.au/shop
🩵To join our subscriber community, A Little More Imperfects, follow this link - patreon.com/theimperfects
🩷 AND you can subscribe to A Little More Imperfects through Apple Podcasts http://apple.co/theimperfects
The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.

Have we ruined the art of being a beginner?
💌 To join our journaling club, with 9,900+ others, subscribe to my imperfect email - https://www.theimperfects.com.au/sign-up-to-our-newsletter/
With guest host Hamish Blake, we welcome back friend (family?) of the show James van Cuylenburg to expertly guide us through beginners’ mindset: what is it, how can we harness it, and what is the best way to model it for our kids?
In a time where kids are wanting to be the GOAT of a sport they learnt about yesterday, we’re winding back the clock to reframe the anger and frustration of trying a new skill, and to learn just how great persistence is for our identity.
James leads us through why we avoid discomfort, the role of dopamine and reward, and when to allow ourselves to quit something.
This episode contains lots of helpful advice for anyone wanting to adopt a beginners’ mindset, and embrace ‘friction maxing’ as their next expedition into embracing discomfort.
Chapters

00:00:00 The Beginner's Mindset
00:01:32 Childhood Choir Days & The Pressure to Be the GOAT
00:10:32 Frictionless Society: The Dopamine Problem
00:22:08 Friction Maxxing: Inviting Discomfort Back In
00:27:49 Process Over Product: Finding Joy in the Journey
00:33:51 Persistence vs Endurance: The Art of Sticking With It
00:49:20 The Zone of Proximal Development: The 5% Rule
00:53:03 When Kids Get Angry: Co-Regulation & Small Wins
00:56:22 Shame vs Motivation: The Choir Director's Mistake
00:59:13 James Van Cuylenburg's New TV Show & Final Thoughts

🫖If you liked this episode, you might also love
James van Cuylenburg - Love Your Wonky Bricks - https://bit.ly/3VZ1O26
James van Cuylenburg - What’s Your Relationship Status - https://bit.ly/4jFdIrF
Hamish Blake - Let’s Talk About Self Doubt - https://bit.ly/4jKDwCQ
Dr Emily - You’re Full of Grit - https://bit.ly/3ULXe6W
Nedd Brockman - The Man, The Myth, The Neddgend - https://bit.ly/4ilxYvX
The Academy of Imperfection - Dr Billy Garvey, Paediatrician - https://bit.ly/4Bpwmdn
Dr Billy Garvey - From Boyz II Men - https://bit.ly/4zpm6QQ
📺 Things to watch
Unskilled Adult - https://bit.ly/4dYgJQi
🎧 Things to listen to
You’re A Good Kid - https://bit.ly/4z9u1Sp
📚Research to research
Gretchen Rubin’s work on process over product - https://bit.ly/4z6UTCu
Angela Duckworth’s work on grit - https://bit.ly/3WAhuJf
🚲 Things to check out
Blue Derby Pods Ride - https://bit.ly/4irThwd
Engage 1 on 1 Psychology - https://bit.ly/3Wev2dg
🩷To host your own Vulnerabilitea House, purchase here - theimperfects.com.au/shop
🩵To purchase our journal (or your novel) My Imperfect Life, click here - theimperfects.com.au/shop
🩵To join our subscriber community, A Little More Imperfects, follow this link - patreon.com/theimperfects
🩷 AND you can subscribe to A Little More Imperfects through Apple Podcasts http://apple.co/theimperfects
The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.

It’s time we talked about the mental load. Again.
💌 To join our journaling club, with 9,900+ others, subscribe to my imperfect email - https://www.theimperfects.com.au/sign-up-to-our-newsletter/
Consider this a companion episode to our infamous, most shared episode of 2023, The Elephant in the Relationship where Hugh and Penny introduced us to their mental load, and how they were trying to make it more equal in their relationship.
Today we’re sprinkling in some expertise and scientific data, as we’re joined by Professor Leah Ruppanner who explains to Hugh, Ryan and Josh that there’s actually 8 different types of mental load, and not all of them are draining.
Bringing examples from their own lives, Hugh, Ryan and Josh discuss with Leah why the mental load can seem like an insurmountable amount of emotional thinking, and how partners can better communicate to reduce anxiety-like symptoms and burnout.
We chat to Leah about the exacerbation of the mental load when chronic illness becomes part of the equation, and how to manage the mental load when there is no one to share it with.
Chapters

00:00:00 – TRAILER
00:02:02 – The Mental Load is life changing for relationships
00:03:11 – Mental Load definition: emotional thinking work
00:05:41 – 3 characteristics of the mental load
00:08:00 – Mental Load vs Burnout: Treat Your Energy Like a Budget
00:14:19 – The Elephant in Hugh & Penny’s Relationship
00:16:50 – Type 1: Life Organisation
00:17:20 – Type 2: Emotional Support
00:18:00 – Type 3: Relationship Hygiene
00:19:03 – Type 4: Dream Building
00:20:26 – Type 5: Magic Making
00:25:00 – Type 6: Individual Upkeep
00:27:30 – Type 7: Safety
00:28:00 – Type 8: Meta Care (Doom Scrolling and the Mental Load)
00:29:56 – How to do a mental load audit with your partner
00:34:09 – Align your energy with your goals
00:36:25 – Delegating tasks vs sharing the mental load
00:38:24 – Shift work vs running the business
00:40:30 – Birthday presents and the perfect mother myth
00:41:30 – Mess: do men really not see it?
00:44:50 – Why women feel judged
00:48:41 – “Good enough is good enough”
00:54:13 – Mental load in same sex couples
00:57:07 – Why perspective + empathy matters
00:58:13 – Mental load when you’re single, or your partner won’t engage
00:59:02 – What a cancer diagnosis does for priorities
01:05:45 – A Little More Imperfects: Mental Load at Work

🫖Imperfects episodes mentioned in this episode
Hugh & Penny - The Elephant in the Relationship - https://bit.ly/4zNi0C4
📚Things to read
Drained, by Leah Ruppanner (this one has the audit in it) - https://bit.ly/47RUyI5
Motherlands, by Lead Ruppanner - https://bit.ly/3WjSCW0
Men do see the mess, study by Leah Ruppanner et al. - https://bit.ly/4dTCaSq
Cognitive + Emotional Labour, research by Leah Ruppanner et al. - https://bit.ly/4eN3HFo
📺 Things to watch
Inside Out - https://bit.ly/4yx5mG4
🂱 Things to do
Fair Play Cards - https://bit.ly/3UFeWZK
💝 Breast Cancer Support
Breast Cancer Network Australia - https://bit.ly/4igX8fj
McGrath Foundation - 1800 183 338
Think Pink Foundation - https://www.thinkpink.org.au
🩷To host your own Vulnerabilitea House, purchase here - theimperfects.com.au/shop
🩵To purchase our journal (or your novel) My Imperfect Life, click here - theimperfects.com.au/shop
🩵To join our subscriber community, A Little More Imperfects, follow this link - patreon.com/theimperfects
🩷 AND you can subscribe to A Little More Imperfects through Apple Podcasts http://apple.co/theimperfects
The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.

In the end, Matt Nable wished his brother would give in.
Motor neurone disease had taken everything, except his brother’s will to live.
💌 To join our journaling club, with 9,000+ others, subscribe to my imperfect email - https://www.theimperfects.com.au/sign-up-to-our-newsletter/
Joining us in the studio today is writer, actor, boxer, and former rugby league player, Matt Nable.
Recognisable for playing infamous tough guys on screen (Arrow, Underbelly, The Dry), Matt’s experience of loss and mental ill health has starkly redefined what he believes it is to ‘be a man’.
Using the analogy of a ‘double edged sword’, Matt explains his experience with bipolar and hypomania, and how those periods have lead to the best, and worst, decisions of his life.
Matt is incredibly generous in sharing his experience of biological melancholia depression, and explores with Josh just how quickly everything can seem to unravel.
Matt speaks about the immense grief he carries for his brother who passed away MND, and how he was able to move through this grief to find purpose and compassion.
*Content Warning: today's episode includes a discussion about psilocybin. In Australia, psilocybin is a controlled substance. Outside of authorised clinical settings, its use, possession and supply are illegal. This episode is not medical advice, and we're not encouraging or endorsing illegal drug use. Psilocybin can carry serious risks, particularly when taken without professional screening and supervision. Our guest's experience is their own and won't be typical of everyone's. This episode also mentions suicide. If you're struggling with grief or your mental health, please speak with your GP or a mental health professional.
🚨If you, or someone you know, are experiencing suicidal thoughts call lifeline on 13 11 14. In an emergency, call 000.
Chapters

00:00:00 – TRAILER
00:02:48 – Childhood shapes who we are
00:03:40 – What does it really mean to be tough?
00:07:38 – Why Matt doesn’t think he is a tough man
00:09:21 – Redefining Masculinity, and Rejecting the Manosphere
00:12:00 – Letting Go of Ego
00:13:34 – Losing his brother to MND
00:20:40 – A Psilocybin Retreat for Grief: Matt’s Experience
00:23:08 – Meeting his younger self
00:24:09 – Reaching Acceptance
00:28:34 – Figuring out what really matters
00:35:12 – A brother’s love: Hugh & Josh reflect
00:38:55 – Finding humour in grief
00:40:34 – A Parent’s Grief vs a Sibling’s Grief
00:41:30 – The Meaning of Matt’s Tattoos
00:42:10 – Bipolar II + Melancholic Depression Diagnosis
00:43:46 – Hypomania: The Double-Edged Sword
00:46:52 – Matt’s rise to fame
00:51:10 – Bipolar vs Depression: The Crash, Exhaustion + Regret
00:52:34 – Sitting with someone in the dark
00:54:08 – The Quicksand of Men’s Mental Health
00:56:02 – Standing on the Edge: Josh’s Story
00:58:01 – Finding Joy in the Small Moments
01:01:29 – Writing as an Anchor Point
01:07:29 – Why men need to be vulnerable
01:07:59 – Journaling Club “How would you like to be remembered?”

Some other great resources are below
Black Dog Institute - https://www.blackdoginstitute.org.au
Beyond Blue - https://www.beyondblue.org.au
📚Things to read
Mire, by Matt Nable - https://bit.ly/4hYglT0
Other books by Matt Nable - https://bit.ly/4dI1uut
📺 Things to watch
The Final Winter - https://bit.ly/4s3EYSC
Things to donate to
Fight MND - https://fightmnd.org.au
🩷To host your own Vulnerabilitea House, purchase here - theimperfects.com.au/shop
🩵To purchase our journal (or your novel) My Imperfect Life, click here - theimperfects.com.au/shop
🩵To join our subscriber community, A Little More Imperfects, follow this link - patreon.com/theimperfects
🩷 AND you can subscribe to A Little More Imperfects through Apple Podcasts http://apple.co/theimperfects
The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.
Trailer footage sourced from Mr Inbetween.

This is not your mother’s perimenopause.
💌 To join our journaling club, subscribe to my imperfect email - https://www.theimperfects.com.au/sign-up-to-our-newsletter/
Joined by guest host Zoë Foster Blake, and Dr Fatima Khan, we’re diving head first into perimenopause: the what, the why, and the how-the-f**k to deal with it.
Typically beginning in your late 30’s, and in your brain of all places, perimenopause symptoms include heightened anxiety, irritability, sleep disturbances, brain fog … all things that make you feel further and further away from your best self.
Beginning 5 -7 years BEFORE your last menstrual period, perimenopause can coincide with postpartum, the most important presentation of your career to date, and the uncovering of neurodivergence, which may have been painstakingly masked until this shift in hormones.
With the expertise of Dr Fatima, and the lived experience of Zoë, we hope this episode makes you feel seen, less alone, and ready to have THAT conversation with your GP.
Chapters

00:00:00 The Truth of Perimenopause [TRAILER]
00:01:09 The Meet Cute of Zoe Foster Blake and Dr Fatima Khan
00:06:55 Is this Perimenopause? Early Signs + Symptoms
00:07:41 Zoe’s Perimenopause Journey: No Sleep, Anxiety, Rage, Repeat.
00:09:56 Volcanic Rage, Explained
00:14:59 What Doctor’s Miss: Misdiagnosis + Antidepressants
00:15:57 Why Your Husband Is Breathing Too Loud
00:20:18 Perimenopause Mental Health Screening
00:21:25 Debunking the “You’re Too Young” Myth
00:23:43 Is it Anxiety? Depression? Perimenopause?
00:25:26 The Pill, The Mirena + The Modern Woman in Peri
00:30:44 Loosing Yourself in Peri: Brain Fog + Dementia Fears
00:32:10 The Importance of Testosterone
00:36:00 HRT Myths: Re-educating a generation
00:39:04 A Script for a Script: What to say to your GP
00:41:12 Perimenopause Is a Multi-Organ Syndrome
00:46:09 High Achieving Women + Peri = Shame
00:46:47 When Perimenopause Unmasks Your ADHD
00:54:26 Trauma Reactivation in Perimenopause
00:57:17 Pills + Skills: Why HRT Alone Isn’t Enough
00:58:41 The Longevity of It All
01:00:30 Nutrition

📚Things to read
Group Chat, by Zoë Foster Blake - https://bit.ly/4efqR70
Hormone Health is Mental Health, by Dr Fatima Khan - https://bit.ly/4j6G2Ts
💻Things to check out
Australasian Menopause Society - menopause.org.au
Meno-D questionnaire - https://bit.ly/3Toj3sN
Zela Wellbeing - https://bit.ly/4ARGFXu
🎧Imperfects episodes for MORE on hormones
Zoë Foster Blake - Zero Lucks Given - https://bit.ly/4y8xwHx
Dr Louise Newson - Maybe it’s Menopause - https://bit.ly/4i7xM3F
Dr Louise Newson - It’s Hormones. Period. - https://bit.ly/47ya9w2
🩷To host your own Vulnerabilitea House, purchase here - theimperfects.com.au/shop
🩵To purchase our journal (or your novel) My Imperfect Life, click here - theimperfects.com.au/shop
🩵To join our subscriber community, A Little More Imperfects, follow this link - patreon.com/theimperfects
🩷 AND you can subscribe to A Little More Imperfects through Apple Podcasts http://apple.co/theimperfects
The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment. The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you’re struggling, please see a healthcare professional, or call lifeline on 13 11 14.