Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam

• Unlock Teen Motivation: Science-Backed Strategies with Dr. David Yeager

  In this episode, Dr. David Yeager, a psychology professor at the University of Texas, shares groundbreaking insights from his book 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People. He challenges common misconceptions about teen motivation and presents research-based strategies for parents and teachers to encourage teens. Dr. Yeager explains how understanding the teenage brain, using autonomy-supportive language, and practicing "do-overs" can improve communication and motivation.   WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE The science behind motivating teenagers and turning procrastination into action. Why the teenage brain isn't "incompetent" and how it responds to different stimuli than adults. How to use autonomy-supportive language to connect with your teen and boost motivation. The importance of aligning your arguments with your teen’s values. How to use “do-overs” to repair communication breakdowns and strengthen your relationship with your teen.   5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Motivate by understanding, not controlling: The teenage brain is wired differently but isn’t "broken." Understanding their perspective and values leads to better motivation. Autonomy matters: Teens need to feel in control of their choices, so use autonomy-supportive language to encourage responsibility. Teen emotions are powerful: Harness the intensity of teen emotions instead of fearing them. These emotions can be a source of motivation if managed well. Communication is key: When communication breaks down, practice “do-overs” to repair the situation and strengthen your relationship. Don’t fear the challenges: The struggle to motivate teens is not a sign of failure—it's an opportunity to connect and guide them more effectively.   🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫 🔔 Remember to hit Follow so you never miss another solution-packed episode! 🙌   RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE 10 TO 25, the Science of Motivating Young People by Dr. David Yeager   EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 Introduction: Unlocking the Science of Motivating Young People 03:41 Understanding the Teenage Brain: A New Perspective 06:27 Motivating Teenagers: The Power of Autonomy Support 14:44 Building Stronger Connections with Teenagers: Practicing Do-Overs   CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Dr. David Yeager Website: DavidYeager.com Twitter: @DavidYeager   CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell   FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:01.513) If you're like most parents, motivating your teen to do anything productive can feel like a daily struggle. But what if we could unlock the secret to turning procrastination into action, disinterest into engagement, and resistance into enthusiasm? That’s what we’re going to talk about today. I’m thrilled to be joined by Dr. David Yeager, a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin, renowned for his influential research alongside esteemed colleagues like Carol Dweck, Angela Duckworth, and Greg Walton. In his latest book, 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People, Dr. Yeager dives deep into the science of adolescent motivation. He’s going to share some of his findings with us today. Dr. Yeager, welcome to the show! Dr. David Yeager (00:46.424) Thanks for having me. I was a middle school teacher right out of college, teaching sixth through eighth-grade English at a low-income school. I also taught K through eighth-grade PE, meaning I had seven or eight preps a day. I struggled with all the challenges you can imagine—everything from getting third graders to line up for dodgeball to getting seventh graders to read The Once and Future King and The Outsiders, and turn in essays on time. I felt frustrated by the advice I was given by the scientific community and research, which led me to want to do better research. I’ve spent my career trying to conduct applied research that provides parents and teachers concrete suggestions on what to say (and what not to say) based on rigorous experiments. Dr. Cam (01:49.151) You’ve definitely piqued everyone’s interest. I’m curious, what was the advice you received earlier that didn’t work? Dr. David Yeager (02:02.478) Think back 20 years. The big ideas around motivation for young people were about their traits—some kids are motivated, others aren’t. Some kids are helpless, some are extroverted, others are reserved. Yes, there are individual differences, but that’s not useful for me. I’m not going to give a personality test on the first day of class and say, “Okay, you’re the type who’s just going to sit there doing nothing.” The other advice was abstract and didn’t have experimental backing. It would say things like, “Set a mastery goal” or “Promote intrinsic motivation over extrinsic motivation,” but real life is more nuanced. For example, if someone asked me how to motivate an eight-year-old, I’d say, “I use a lot of Pokemon cards and candy.” With younger kids, you need something to get them over the initial hump. Once they realize success feels good, you can build intrinsic motivation over time. The advice I received was either too simplistic or not useful. I wanted clarity on what to say to make kids more intrinsically motivated or persistent, and that’s what we’ve focused on in our randomized experiments. Dr. Cam (03:41.47) I love this and can’t wait to hear more. Let’s talk quickly about why it feels so hard to motivate our teenagers in the first place. Dr. David Yeager (03:53.74) A traditional narrative is that something’s wrong with this generation—brainwashed by phones, distracted by political unrest, and so on. While there are differences compared to when we were growing up, I think a lot of the complaints are overstated. For example, think about how much more attention we can give now with technology—like when you’re driving, you don’t have to worry about getting lost because you have Google Maps. We used to spend so much time with physical maps or printing out directions from MapQuest, hoping the printer worked. Sure, there are distractions now, but we wasted a lot of time in the past, too. Dr. Cam (04:30.849) Thank God for that! I remember getting lost a lot more. Dr. David Yeager (04:51.212) Right? I think a lot of what’s happening now is a net even. Older generations have always complained about younger ones—this goes back to Aristotle and Plato. What I want to focus on is the timeless aspects of the adolescent brain that haven’t changed over the course of hundreds of thousands of years, and how they respond to cultural and technological shifts. Fundamentally, young people’s brains, from the onset of puberty, start craving experiences of status. The feeling of earning a prestigious reputation in the eyes of someone they care about has never felt as good as it does during puberty. On the flip side, the humiliation of being rejected or failing publicly at something important never feels worse. Given the intensity of these emotions, we as parents can’t just tell kids to “get over it.” We have to understand it and figure out how to harness it. Dr. Cam (06:26.913) I love this because it speaks to how parents often say, “Well, this is how I was raised, and it worked for me.” But 20 years ago, we didn’t know nearly as much as we know now about the brain and teen development. We know so much more now that can help us avoid some of the trauma many adults are still recovering from. If we can prevent that, why wouldn’t we? Let’s talk about the teen brain. I’m with you—evolution doesn’t change that quickly. The world around teens today has changed drastically, and they’re doing the best they can in this world we’ve created. Dr. David Yeager (07:42.146) The most important thing to keep in mind is that there are different metaphors for what the teenage brain is doing. The metaphor we choose shapes how we deal with it. One common view is that young people are neurobiologically incompetent—that the moment puberty strikes, they get a “frontal lobotomy,” can’t plan ahead, can’t reason logically, are short-sighted, impulsive, and selfish. That view goes back to Plato’s Phaedrus, where young people were compared to unruly horses needing to be controlled by a charioteer. Neuroscientists have used this view, partly because it has served as a convenient legal argument for youth offenders. It’s true that kids don’t always think about the lifelong consequences of their actions, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t thinking. They’re just thinking about different things, not long-term self-interest. The updated view is a neurobiological competence model. Teens are really good at some things—just not what adults expect. The teenage brain is like the R&D engine for our culture. As society and technology change, teens have to adapt quickly and figure out how to succeed in our world—and they do this far faster than adults. What adults may see as a short attention span is often the brain at the frontier of innovation. Think about it: The same adults who complain about kids loitering at the mall might be served by an excellent 16-year-old waiter without even noticing. The teenage brain is paying attention to different things, and once we understand what those things are, we can communicate more effectively, inspiring independence and motivation in young people.     Dr. Cam (10:46.249): That’s fantastic. It’s so true. Their priorities are different from ours, but that doesn’t make them wrong; it makes them different. My understanding is that the prefrontal cortex is still developing during adolescence, forming connections. So, complex skills like emotional regulation and problem-solving are still being developed. It doesn’t mean they can’t do these things, but they’re primed to learn how to do them better. This is a time for practicing those skills, but we can’t expect them to have it all figured out yet. Is that correct? Dr. David Yeager (11:28.268): Yes, that’s mostly correct. The brain’s emotional regulation is an experience-dependent process. Some things, like bone growth from drinking milk, happen automatically, but emotional regulation depends on experiences. You learn to regulate emotions by actually going through emotional experiences. The old model suggested that logical reasoning in the prefrontal cortex dampens the impulsive emotional regions of the brain, but now we know that the emotional areas teach the prefrontal cortex what to care about. Carol Dweck, who developed growth mindset theory, recently published a paper showing that goal-directedness, driven by emotions, guides the brain’s development. Teenagers can focus their cognitive resources when motivated by something important to them, and that experience changes their brain and their mindset. The challenge for us as adults is that when there’s a conflict, it’s often because their goal isn’t to regulate their emotions to meet our demands. Their brain won’t be receptive to our goals unless they perceive them as important. Dr. Cam (13:53.183): This ties right into motivation. We’re not saying kids aren’t motivated; they just aren’t motivated to do what we want them to. When we talk about kids being unmotivated or lazy, it’s not that they lack motivation or drive, it’s that they’re focused on things we don’t care about. Dr. David Yeager (14:18.574): Exactly. The same parents who complain about their kids not doing homework or practicing the cello will find that their kids are excellent at planning how to sneak out to a party. That’s goal-directed behavior. Teenagers are incredibly good at setting and achieving goals. It’s like watching a 17-year-old Canadian win gold in swimming at the Olympics. Teenagers can absolutely focus when it matters to them, but their priorities are different. Our task as adults is to figure out what matters to them, which often comes back to social reputation or status—not in a superficial way, like social media likes, but in a deep, meaningful way. The question they’re asking is: How am I a valuable contributor in the eyes of people whose opinions I care about? And adults often don’t care about that; they just want compliance. They want kids to listen because we said so. That’s fine when they’re little and we need them to get their shoes on for school, but as they grow, we can’t expect them to simply obey without question. That doesn’t help them be the innovators we need for the future. Dr. Cam (16:01.181): It makes so much sense. When we project them into the future, do we want kids who just do what they’re told? We see this now in the workforce, where many complain that kids can’t think for themselves and only do the bare minimum. But it’s not because something’s wrong with them; it’s how we’ve raised them. Dr. David Yeager (16:25.014): Yes, we’ve done it to them. The emotional development of the brain is an experience-dependent process. If kids grow up thinking they should listen to adults without question just because they said so, they’ll either stop listening to anyone or, worse, they’ll become compliant without thinking. We’ve seen this problem in society, where people just pick a side and repeat what their team says without engaging in real discussion. What we need are young people who can think critically, consider nuanced alternatives, and apply them in their lives. If we raise kids like that, society will benefit greatly, not just in terms of parenting, but because those kids will become innovators who can solve the world’s biggest problems. Dr. Cam (17:27.263): Right. One thing that trips us up is perceiving their attempts to express their opinions or what’s important to them as disrespect. We shut it down and say, “You’re not allowed to say that.” I see this often, and I think it sends a harmful message that their opinion is wrong just because it differs from ours. That creates someone who can’t think independently.   Dr. David Yeager (17:56.118) Yeah, I think the biggest confusion I see is around the word "respect" or "listen." This is influenced by Rosalyn Wiseman, a thoughtful parenting leader. When parents say "respect," they usually mean unquestioned obedience. When kids say "respect," they mean being heard and valued as real people. Same with "listening." When kids say, "Nobody listens to me," they mean nobody cares about their perspective or why they might have legitimate reasons for being reluctant. What I’d love is to have a shared definition of respect, where people are treated as adult-like humans with independent thoughts and feelings. The reason adults view it one way and kids view it another is due to the neurobiological incompetence model. If adults think young people can’t think, that they’re impulsive or short-sighted, then why would we care about their opinions? We assume we’ve already figured it out. But if we adopt a neurobiological competence model, where we see young people as adapting to culture before we are, understanding things we don’t yet see, it makes more sense to ask questions, listen, and see where they’re coming from. Dr. Cam (19:52.37) I love that. It explains so well that we need to value them as unique individuals with their own minds and needs, not as extensions of us who just need to do what we want. This is where I see a lot of friction between parents and teens. Dr. David Yeager (20:12.172) Yeah, there’s a study I talk about in the book where I look at a phenomenon I call "grown-splaining"—kind of like mansplaining, but it’s grown-ups telling kids what to do. The logic behind it is, "If only you would listen to my clear, logical reasons, you’d change." But that doesn’t work. In the study, they recorded moms nagging their teenage daughters and then put the daughters in an fMRI scanner to see what happens in the brain. What they found is that the logical reasoning regions of the brain actually go down. The anger regions go up, meaning the teenage girls are getting more frustrated. But what’s most interesting is that the social cognition regions of the brain, the areas related to understanding the meaning behind what’s being said, were less active. So when a teenager hears nagging, they’re not processing the reasoning—it’s like the words go in one ear and out the other. But this is situational—it’s about the tone of our voice, how we tell them what to do, and not involving them in the conversation. When we impose our goals and values without their input, they check out. But if we create a different context, we can see much better engagement. Dr. Cam (22:20.543) I want to flip this a bit because I can already hear parents asking, "So, should we just let them do whatever they want? Are we always wrong and they’re always right?" They’re worried about things like video games taking over their kids’ lives while homework or chores get ignored. These are real concerns. How do we address that? Dr. David Yeager (22:45.55) For sure. The wrong response is to say, "We should have no standards and let the kids run everything." That’s not what I’m suggesting. In my book, I talk about experts who work with young people, like the best manager at Microsoft for 20-year-olds or a top high school physics teacher. I also spoke with a coach who works with teenage NBA draft prospects. What they do is nothing like letting young people run wild. They have incredibly high expectations, but they provide the support for kids to meet those expectations. What we’ve learned is that there are two ways to get this wrong. One is what we call an "enforcer mindset," where the goal is to enforce high standards and leave the kids to meet them on their own. This can make parents come across as authoritarian—compliance might happen, but it’s not willful. The other extreme is the "protector mindset," where parents focus on protecting kids from distress and low self-esteem, leading to low expectations and kids walking all over them. The middle ground is the "mentor mindset." In this model, you have very high standards but also high support. This combination helps kids develop into meaningful contributors to society, able to follow rules but doing so because they understand the reasons and internalize the values. It’s not about dictating rules—it’s about helping them take ownership. I’ve seen this in action, and it works. There are many examples and practices from these mentor-leaders in the book, and fortunately, anyone can start applying them.   Dr. Cam (25:24): So, give us some examples because I think there’s a very fine line to walk here. People really struggle with the difference between mentoring and controlling—or maybe more accurately, micromanaging. I see a lot of micromanaging, where parents think they’re helping and teaching. What’s the difference? Dr. David Yeager (25:48): Yeah. Well, I think if you hold a high standard for things like personal conduct—like cleaning your room or helping around the house—young people will complain. They don’t want to do those things. And the easiest way to stop the complaints is to just lower the standard. "Okay, fine, I’ll do it," right? I have four kids, so I get that. But sometimes, when we hold the standard, it turns into a shouting match. And we’re left thinking, “Who have I become?” What I’ve learned is a couple of things. One is that a big reason for complaints is that we’re often not transparent about why we’re holding the standard. We might just say, “Do this,” and when they ask why, we say, “Because I said so.” We don’t explain. But explanations show respect. If I asked you to do something for me without giving a reason, I’d come across like a jerk. I’d be manipulating you. But we talk to teenagers this way all the time, which would be totally inappropriate with other adults. The problem is that we still think they’re children, and they think they’re adults. So, there’s this two- to three-year gap in communication. They feel talked down to, and we feel like we’re being appropriate. So, sometimes, you can ask for the same thing but be clear about your intentions. Show them how what you’re asking will help them become a better person or contribute to their happiness. Transparency is one simple step. Another, a bit harder, but very important, is questioning. Instead of just telling them, try asking for their perspectives. Avoid questions like, “What were you thinking?” because that implies they weren’t thinking. Instead, show curiosity by asking authentic questions that invite them to share their reasoning. When you do this, they feel respected and heard, and they’ll often start telling you what you want. I’ll tell you, a lot of this comes from negotiation tactics, like those used in hostage situations. Sometimes talking to a teenager about going to a party feels like a hostage negotiation! And it turns out, the same tactics that work for negotiating with hostages also work with teenagers. Dr. Cam (28:51): That’s so true. The power of empathy and validating their feelings is key. We struggle with this because some people confuse it with agreeing with them. It doesn’t mean agreeing with their anger or frustration—it just means acknowledging that their feelings are real, which is non-negotiable. What they feel is what they feel. Dr. David Yeager (29:08): Exactly. Dr. Becky has a great phrase: the "most charitable interpretation." When your teenager does something frustrating, pause and try to think, “What’s the most charitable possible interpretation of this behavior?” Often, their behavior is just their way of seeking status and respect, either from you or from their peers. If you start with curiosity, trying to understand what they want, it doesn’t mean you have to agree with them. But understanding them puts you in a better position to negotiate. The problem with negotiations is offering something they don’t want. If you understand what they want, you can offer a deal they’re more likely to accept. That’s often what it’s like talking to teenagers. Dr. Cam (30:03): I tell parents all the time, you might be offering a solution, but you’re solving for your problem, not theirs. Then, when they don’t agree with it, you get upset. That happens a lot. So, I know parents are still wondering, “How do we actually motivate them to do their homework?” Dr. David Yeager (30:21): Well, there’s 380 pages in the book on this! But I’ll say there are different reasons why they don’t do their homework. Sometimes it’s because the homework feels too hard, and they fear failure. They worry that trying hard will just expose their lack of ability, which is the fixed mindset in action. Another reason could be time pressure. If the homework is due the next day, they feel overwhelmed—racing heart, sweaty palms. That’s anxiety. In one paper I published in Nature a few years ago, we reframed difficulty. We showed that difficulty actually means you’re doing something ambitious. It’s a sign you care about something important. And those physical symptoms—the racing heart, the sweaty palms—are actually your body mobilizing resources to help you perform better. Your body sweats to cool itself down, and that helps you think more clearly. Your heart races to get oxygenated blood to your brain, which helps you think faster. So, reframing anxiety as excitement can help. There are other reasons they don’t do homework, like not seeing the point, but I cover those in detail in the book, with practical tools. Dr. Cam (32:16): That’s great. So, let’s break it down into the three key takeaways for parents—things they can use to connect better and understand their teen. Dr. David Yeager (32:37): Sure. The three main takeaways I’d suggest are: Tone and word choice matter in tough conversations. The difference between autonomy-supportive language and controlling language is huge. For example, saying “You might consider” or “Have you thought about this?” is autonomy-supportive. Saying “You should do this” or “You must do this” is controlling. Tiny changes in how we phrase things can make a big difference. Align your argument with their values. Often, we try to get them to care about things that don’t resonate with them. But there are values they care about that can align with your goals. For example, instead of saying, “You need to do your homework so you can get into a good college,” say, “This homework will help you build skills that you’ll need to solve real-world problems.” You can connect what they’re doing to a value they care about. Give yourself do-overs when you mess up. We’re all raised in a culture that’s been getting teenagers wrong for a long time. Don’t expect yourself to get it perfect every time. But it’s not like a failure that you can’t recover from—there are endless do-overs. I’ve started telling my kids, “I didn’t handle that the way I should’ve. I should have asked you about your reasons for not doing it. Can you share that with me, so we can figure it out together?” When you do that, they often forget the initial frustration, and you’re able to work through things together. Those do-over conversations get easier and faster over time. Dr. Cam (35:54): And those are great things to model for our teens. When we do it, they’ll start doing it for us. Most of the time, that’s what we’ve been trying to get them to do anyway! When we take control of ourselves and how we show up, everything changes. I could talk to you for hours more—there’s so much more I want to ask you. This has been so enlightening and interesting. But how can people find you, and tell us about your book? Dr. David Yeager (36:25): The book is called 10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People. If you care about or know anything about young people ages 10 to 25, this book is for you. We want to stop the miscommunications and frustration that cause so much tension between generations. It’s available at Barnes & Noble, Amazon, and Simon & Schuster. You can also get bulk discounts if you want to buy it for all your friends. I’m on LinkedIn, and you can find me through the University of Texas at Austin, where I have a professor website. Dr. Cam (37:06): What are you researching? Dr. David Yeager (37:10): I’ve always focused on kids in school—how they transition from middle school to high school, high school to college. Now, we’re thinking about the workforce. Are 20-year-olds entering workplaces where the managers know how to motivate them? And what about the 70% of kids who don’t go to four-year colleges? Do they have bosses who understand what young people need in terms of status and respect? Or are they stuck with bad jobs and bad managers? We’re looking at alternative pathways to the workforce, regardless of college education, and trying to help managers understand how to inspire and motivate young people. Dr. Cam (38:02): That’s amazing! And when they’re inspired, their employees thrive. Thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.   About the Show: The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam

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• How to Teach Teens Media Literacy & Critical Thinking with Carl Azuz

  In this episode, former CNN anchor Carl Azuz joins Dr. Cam to explore how to teach teens media literacy and critical thinking in today's news-driven world. Carl shares strategies for helping teens navigate bias, develop independent opinions, and manage anxiety caused by negative news. They discuss the importance of fostering open conversations, promoting respectful discourse, and exposing teens to diverse perspectives to encourage empathy and tolerance. Learn how to help your teen separate fact from opinion, engage in thoughtful discussions, and gain a broader understanding of the world around them.   WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE How to teach your teen to fact-check and recognize bias in media The impact of the news on teen anxiety and how to alleviate it Why open, respectful conversations about tough topics are vital The importance of exposing your teen to multiple perspectives to broaden their views How to shift the focus from negative news to solutions and positive stories   5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Teach teens to seek information from multiple sources to avoid bias and develop critical thinking. Engage in open conversations, modeling respectful discussions and encouraging them to form their own opinions. Highlight positive stories and solutions to counteract anxiety from negative news. Expose teens to a variety of news topics and perspectives to foster empathy and understanding. Focus on starting with the facts, then exploring different perspectives without bias.   🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫  🔔 Remember to hit Follow so you never miss another solution—packed episode! 🙌   RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE The World from A to Z with Carl Azuz   EPISODE CHAPTERS 00:00 - Introduction and Carl Azuz’s Background 03:02 - Teaching Media Literacy & Critical Thinking 08:00 - Navigating Bias & Multiple Perspectives 13:04 - Open Conversations & Respectful Behavior 18:08 - Alleviating Anxiety & Fear in Teens 23:46 - Widening World Perspectives & Fostering Gratitude   CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Carl Azuz Website: www.theworldfromatoz.com X (Twitter): @CarlAzuzCNN   CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell   FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:02.039) Are your teens overwhelmed by today's chaotic news cycle? Do you wonder how to help them separate fact from opinion in a world full of bias? Today, we've got Carl Azuz, former CNN 10 anchor and new creator of the world from A to Z. Here to share how we can teach our teens media literacy, civil discourse, and critical thinking. So let's dive in. Carl, welcome to the show.   Carl Azuz (00:26.594) Hey, it's fantastic being here with you, Dr. Cam. Thank you for having me on.   Dr. Cam (00:30.161) Absolutely. let's start. You were on CNN for a while and then you have started the world from A to Z. Can you tell us a little bit about that first and how did that become in how did that come into reality?   Carl Azuz (00:43.022) Absolutely, I had spent my entire career at CNN up until about the fall of 2022. I was gonna say October is probably around September, October of 2022. I was recruited to work there right out of college. I'd studied video and film production, not specifically broadcast news, though the University of Georgia had a strong broadcast news major you could focus on. But CNN was recruiting.   And I went for it because I'd been familiar with the network. I'd watched at home as I was growing up and everything. And I'd started at the very entry level two days after I graduated college. In fact, Ted Turner, who founded CNN, spoke at my college graduation coincidentally, and I didn't attend it because I was moving back to Atlanta to work for that man two days later. So that was like my little Ted Turner story, but everybody had one in those days. that was up.   Dr. Cam (01:32.621) that's funny.   Carl Azuz (01:38.126) You know, that was my career. I got on the air there and spent about 15 years on the air hosting CNN student news. It rebranded to CNN 10 around 2017. Then left the network in the fall of 2022. I freelanced for a year working with Sunlight Homeschool Curriculum, working with the Poynter Institute as a media ambassador, media literacy being my focus and did some public speaking. And then in the fall of 23, we launched the world from A to Z. And it's such an exciting thing because   We are independently produced. We are able to cover the news. can cover whatever's happening, whatever the story of the day might be, whether it's here or abroad. We want it to be very international, because after all, it's the world from A to Z. But we are able to do that without any sort of partisan bias. And that's really my priority when covering anything controversial, anything political. I don't want the show to lean to the left or the right.   I'm not saying I'm perfect, but is my intention to be as perfect as we can in, know, treating multiple viewpoints the same way without prioritizing one side over the other, especially when it comes to politics.   Dr. Cam (02:49.543) imagine that's incredibly hard right now because everything is so completely at opposite ends. So how do you even do that? Where do you find middle ground? I don't even know where it is anymore.   Carl Azuz (03:03.566) It's a challenge and I'm grateful to have had, you know, so many years of experience when I was training to write. I remember I had a really good piece of advice. and this was, this is many years ago. This is before I was even on the air, but I remember that there was an executive who sat down with us and said, don't just make sure every story is balanced. Make sure they're weighted the same. If you give a minute, 20 seconds to one political party and 15 seconds to the other, you could argue that you had balance. had multiple perspectives.but you're not weighting them the same. And so in those days, the priority was to have balance and weight. And so those are things I look for, but you, I mean, you hit the nail on the head. I mean, these are incredibly divided times and you know, folks in media, and this isn't a knock on any one network. This is media wide. People are increasingly telling news through blue or red tinted glasses. And so for us, you're right, it is a challenge. It is more challenging to write. today than it was when I started in news because so much of this information is either one sided or it's favoring one political partisan viewpoint over another. And so for me, it's like, well, look, I have an audience of students. I don't assume they watch the news every day. So my first thing is what are the facts? Just glean the facts. What happened? Is there a new law? What is it? What does it say? And then after you've established what's going on, why people care about it, why it's making news, then we can get into the different perspectives if there's time to talk about, okay, well, this is why supporters of this new law say it's gonna be great. This is why opponents of this new law say it's gonna be awful. But to try to do that in a way that doesn't land on one side or the other, so often, if we're doing a story that has a political, if it's politically charged, if on Monday we cover this story and I say, well, Democrats say this, Republicans say this,   If we revisit that on Wednesday or Thursday, I'll flip the order so that no one party always has the last word. So they're all part of the strategies to start first with the facts, then get into different perspectives, but do so in a way that, look, I don't want people to think I'm leaning one way or another. The only way I can get our audience to trust this show and to back up what we say when we say we're nonpartisan is to make sure we're representing those different viewpoints in a way that doesn't favor one.   Dr. Cam (05:03.511) I think one of the things that's really hard too is we as adults and as parents have a very polarized view at this point, even if we think we're, I think I'm in the middle. I think I'm rational, but I know I'm not, right? I know for a fact that there's no way I am, right? You kind of pick your side, I guess. I feel like everything has a side, but then what you consume and how you consume it all is done in a way that's towards what you already believe. It's not something where we're open to understanding other sides, right? There's a big issue with that. So how is parents, when we are, even if we want to admit it or not, when we're biased, how do we teach our kids critical thinking and to come up with their own opinions, which again, I think is really hard for parents because they want their kids to have their opinions. There was a lot in there.  How do we teach our kids to think for themselves in a situation where it's very difficult to think for ourselves?   Carl Azuz (06:34.338) Well, I don't think there's, personally don't think there's something wrong in a parent sharing, you know, his or her opinion with the child. But that said, when it comes to media literacy, I always encourage our audience to have multiple sources and multiple credible sources. If you go to social media, you look at TikTok and Instagram, some of these folks are very gifted. Some of them, you know, could be journalists or reporters, but there are a lot of people, because anyone can say anything at any time on social media, there are a lot of people who are just, holding up a phone and spouting off a bunch of opinions or maybe some facts that line up on one side of an argument, but ignore the other. And they're becoming incredibly influential. So I'm always telling folks, look, it helps to start with major news organizations you have heard of because a lot of those big organizations, they do have reputations to protect and they want to, as those that are established, they want to make sure that their viewers, their readers, their consumers are trusting them. But to have multiple sources. Never let one organization be all your source for news because as we've talked about as reporters who are human beings increasingly put their opinion or their bias into their reporting, these different networks, it's very difficult at that level unless your whole network has just said, we're going to just explore this side, this is going to be our approach. It's very difficult for them to be nonpartisan or objective when so many people there aren't. And so I'm always encouraging people, young people, have multiple sources, multiple credible sources, get your news from different places, regardless of whether you personally lean left or right, read from both sides. Because oftentimes, the overlap is where the truth is. And to extend that to parents, I would just encourage them to say,   This is why I believe what I do. I mean, I think if parents are transparent, I think that that helps too to say, look, I mean, we're seeing these news, we're seeing these different viewpoints. This is what one side says, this is what another side says. But, you know, I personally believe this and you can make up your own mind. But I think that if parents and teachers did that, that conversation alone can help a student, a young person think critically because they are hearing multiple viewpoints, at least initially without judgment.   And I think that's key to understanding.   Dr. Cam (09:00.437) That is a very difficult thing to do these days is listen without judgment. feel like judgment is just woven into the conversations at this point. so being able to separate that and wanting our kids to grow up without like we're raising them, I feel like in this very separated world and they're learning to think that way. So how do we have a conversation with them that opens that up and says, okay, here's some signs that we can look at to know that this is very biased or here's some things to think about if you're thinking this way that you could be stuck in a bias, right? So what are some things we can teach them and ourselves?   Carl Azuz (09:40.749) It’s kind of using my show as an example. If we're covering a controversial story and you're hearing multiple perspectives, I think one thing that helps is to ask them, okay, what did you get out of that? What different opinions did you hear about this subject? I think basically just establishing the fact that there are different arguments, there are different opinions, just to talk about, just in a conversation, I think gets, you know, kind of the wheels turning among young people. mean, one thing on our show, try to, you we want to encourage critical thinking. We want people who watch our show to consume our show to say, look, there are different views on anything and every human idea, human invention, human law, it has pros and cons. There are side effects to the things that we come up with and the solutions that people come up with.   So I think that by watching our show, they'll get a sense of that, whether it's something politically controversial or maybe it's just a new initiative to use AI technology to test local bacteria levels and waterways. Okay, but who's paying for that? Will that impact water bills of people around? Just think in terms of broader, bigger picture so that when you hear about a new invention,   So often I've seen my colleagues in the media get caught up in all the pros. you know, I remember in the early days of self -driving cars and as the technology was developing, you know, there were people who'd get caught up and say, this is the solution. It'll eliminate human error and it'll be greener and cleaner. It'll get everybody where they want to go. And there won't be any accidents and all that stuff. And then as the reality has played out, first of all, it's taken a lot longer than anyone thought to develop that technology. And then of course we've seen in some places where they've gone whole hog on these, there have been some problems, even in parking lots with the self -driving cars themselves at the end of the day, looking to park themselves and struggling with that. So I'm not saying I'm looking to dump on new ideas, but I'm looking to provide what supporters say is going to be great about it, and then what's the critical angle so that they can have those conversations. And extending that to parents, extending that to teachers, to be able to say, what are you getting out of this story? Did you hear something that it sounds like   Here's a problem and here's the one solution and everything's all sorted out. So let's just do that. Or did you hear, wait a minute, some people are saying, let's pump the brakes on this. There are other angles, whether it's the cost of something, whether it's the impact, the side effects it has, like, you you've seen the advertisements for new medications and they always have this list of side effects they give. Correct. Exactly. It's fast, but at least it's there. And so the hope is, you know, to have a show that gives those multiple perspectives that could be used as a jumping off point for parents to say, okay, look, you heard one side that said this, but you heard another side that said this, and if possible, you know, bringing a whole bunch of viewpoints on it. But I want people to have discussions and to think critically about it. And I don't want folks to depend on any one media organization, including my own, as their sole source for information. I think that as people consider different perspectives, especially if those are presented without judgment, we're able to have a conversation about it. And now, I mean, as you and I have discussed, Dr. Kam, I mean, people aren't looking to converse. They're looking to say, this is the reason I believe this, and I want to shut you down. And I'm like, that's not helping the divide we have. That's not going to help us democratically, where, you know, throughout the past, we've always seen whether it's legislation, a new government initiative or whatever, it often moves forward with compromise because neither party has figured all this stuff out. And so hopefully in a small way, our show could be a jumping off point for those discussions.   Dr. Cam (13:30.267) I love that and I think it's so important to realize that we are looking at, we have to look at multiple sources. And I think there's a lot of distrust with the media these days too. Why do you think that is?   Carl Azuz (13:45.494) It's fascinating, you're exactly right in saying that. There've been a couple studies over the past couple of years that say Americans' trust in media is either at or close to a record low. So we have seen those studies over and over again. Personally, I believe, having spent my whole career in broadcast media, that it's because opinions have infiltrated broadcasts. And I think to some extent, you've got, again, this isn't a knock on any one network. This is media wide, but I think to some extent, different organizations want to serve specific audiences. They want to say, okay, well, we know that more people on the left or on the right are watching us and they're paying for us. So let's, cover news. That's exciting to them. You look at what you're fed on social media. That's meant to get your click. And so if Facebook, for instance, or TikTok or whatever, if it's learning about you that you always are watching something that's a rant against one party, it wants to feed you that to get the click and to help with their advertising and to show their advertisers that, we can drive you traffic that you're looking for. That's just the world we live in. And so that's why I'm always just like, don't have just one source.   Make sure you are looking to other places so you're getting those contrasting viewpoints.   Dr. Cam (15:09.707) When let's go into a scenario, because I've heard this a lot, where the parents have one very strong point of view and the teenager has a very strong point of view that is different from the parent. And there's multiple reasons why. I mean, there's a generational thing. There's just a, you're my parent, so I want to disagree with you. This can cause a lot of tension in a household and a lot of shutting down of kids because we're like, you're wrong, right? You're just wrong. I'm the adult, you're wrong. So how do we have these conversations with our kids when they're bringing up situations or saying arguments that just make our skin crawl because it's so opposed to what we believe in? How do we have that conversation? Because this is true with anybody, right? But I think it's really important to be able to do this with our team because we can't just unfollow our team like we do with a lot of people on social media.   So how do we have these conversations where they become more productive and teach them to think critically and not just trying to convince them that we're right and they're wrong?   Carl Azuz (16:15.758) think first and foremost, it's have the discussion, talk to the kids. mean, like there were a number of studies. I mean, when I was with CNN for a while, I did education reporting in addition to hosting CNN student news and CNN 10. And one conclusion that we saw in so many of these studies, whether it was, you know, risky behavior by teens or teens skipping school or teens dropping out or whatever, one thing we saw in all of these studies, I became a broken record, I was repeating myself, was that those young people who said their parents wouldn't really care either way were far more likely, always by double digits, to engage in the risky behavior, the controversial behavior or whatever it was. Whereas those students who said, my mom, my dad would totally freak out if they caught me doing this, were by double digits less likely. So what that taught me is that parents, teachers, you are influential, you have more influence than you might think you do, even if the kid, know, is contrarian, if we want to borrow a diplomatic term or if, you know, they're just antagonistic. You do have that influence. So I think first of all, is to have those conversations. Don't think, well, you know, so and so will just shut down or that's just how things are. And so I'm not even going to bring it up or I'm going to snipe at the child or the child's going to constantly snipe at me. So first, keep the lines of communication open.  Second, I think to have a civil discussion in a way that says, listen, I understand where you're coming from. I understand maybe you've heard this or maybe they process, they're processing something they heard at school on TikTok, whatever it might be. And to say, listen, I understand why you would think that, but I want you to think bigger picture here because there is another viewpoint and that viewpoint says A, B and C, or there are side effects to making a law that says everybody must do this. And those side effects include D, E and F.   And I think that conversations like that, especially if they're kept civil, help the child understand, okay, look, dad's not gonna agree with me on this, but I kind of see why other people are saying what they do. At least they were able to have that conversation. And so I think that, you know, that's an important starting point. And I think that goes beyond the parent kid relationship. I'd like to see a classroom, even if 29 students line up on one side of a controversy and one lines up on the other.   I would hope that they could have a civil discussion at the end. Maybe nobody's opinion has changed. That's okay. But to also be able to see, I don't agree with you, dude. I can't see things the way you see them, but I understand where you're coming from. And I don't need to hate you because we're different in that viewpoint. Dr. Cam (18:57.017) How do we get there? I think we're modeling not that as adults. We're not modeling that behavior. And to teach it to our kids is a difficult thing when we're not modeling it. So I think being able to listen to somebody else's without feeling the need to convince, because I think we're stuck in convincing mode, right? So how do we even as parents listen to our teens' perspective?   Because our team may have points that we don't know about because they're listening to other resources. I mean, they're tapped in too.   Carl Azuz (19:30.147) Yes, sure they are. they have so it's not, you know, we're not in an era anymore where you have the family gathered around the evening news for half an hour and then discussing it. It's like people are being flooded with information from the moment they wake up and look at a screen. And so you're exactly right. The parents and teens are dealing with that. But again, I mean, I think that, you know, it comes back to what you're saying about modeling the behavior and there are a number of health reports that we've aired on the world from A to Z that discuss the importance of modeling behavior. you know, it's like, it starts with parents. It's fine for you to consume what you want to consume and have your opinion. But if all your child hears is you grumbling about a political party, can't believe they're doing this, you know, grumbling about a candidate all the time. Yeah, I mean, I think that that's It's not going to encourage the conversations that I think that folks need to be having in a civil way. So I totally agree. think that it does start with modeling that behavior. It does start with sitting down and just having conversations and saying, look, this is where I stand on this. And this is why, because of what, you know, what I grew up or what I saw are because of you and the future and all these other things, but it's all right if you disagree, but just understand that there are other opinions and try to respect them. I think if adults model respect, I think kids are more likely to be susceptible to it and hopefully model that themselves, hopefully have that themselves. But to respect the fact that there are other viewpoints, I think you're right, I think it starts with us.   Dr. Cam (21:11.839) I want to hit another thing, Carl, that comes up a lot is, I mean, there's a lot of really horrific stories in the news. And like you just said, we're bombarded by it from everywhere and almost makes it sound like this is happening all the time everywhere, right? And so how do we help our kids? Because I've seen this a lot where teenagers now are far more impacted by what's going on in the news than we were growing up when we didn't have, you know, we didn't, had television and we just didn't watch it. And now it's like, you can't even avoid it. How do we help our kids who are actually struggling from anxiety and fear from all these stories that they're being bombarded by?   Carl Azuz (21:56.738) That is an excellent question. The short answer again, I believe it's so important for parents and students, teens, children, whatever it might be, to converse, to talk about it. Open those lines of communication. Let them know if there's something that's bugging you, if there's something you're struggling with, talk to me about it. Feel like you can talk to me or another parent, a trusted aunt, whoever it might be. But first off, keep those lines of communication open. I think that's so important. And that's what we've seen.   In news, mean, I'm not a psychologist, but we've reported on so many of these psychological studies and they're always like converse and be able to have civil discussions with students. I think that's first and foremost. Another thing too is look at the news sources. If you have a highly partisan organization that's trying to drive people to, and I mean, they do this in the left and the right. So I'm not like picking on one side or another, but they'll try to drive people. to fear and get out there and vote or else they're gonna take away your right to do anything. mean, there's so much of that, so much fear mongering in mass media that I think, you one thing that we try to do on our show is, okay, you know, like Mr. Rogers used to say, look for the helpers. And I'm sorry if I've misquoted that, but the general sense is there. But to find out what's being done to remedy these different things. I remember, you know, when I was reporting on the early days of COVID. I mean, we were, we didn't want to terrify our audience. I my audience in news is very unique and we're looking at middle school students, high school students, it's international. And so I don't want to terrify them. I want to give them a sense of the fact that yeah, there are problems in the world, but there are people working on those problems. If it's big scale geopolitical upheaval, it might help them to hear, there are other countries involved trying to get Russia and Ukraine to have peace talks, Israel and Hamas to have peace talks. But also when it comes to some of these stories, whether it's a new disease that's spreading or something like that, I'm not looking to be a fear monger in this. I'm looking to give them knowledge of the fact that, look, there are people who are finding solutions. There are new medicines being tested out, new treatments being tested out. Some people stay at home, drink a lot of water and that's helping. Whatever it might be, I wanna make sure to include the fact that there are efforts being taken to address the problems they see. And hopefully that'll alleviate a little bit of that anxiety. I'm not saying that we should put trust in every solution that people have instantly as the one size fits all thing. But I think it's important for students to know when they hear about bad things happening, even if it's a plane crash because of a technical problem, what's being done about it? What does the company say? Is the government investigating? Are there efforts being made to solve this and keep it from happening again. I think hearing that, as we always try to include on the world from A to Z, is something that can help with that anxiety.   Dr. Cam (24:55.343) I love that Carl and I think that is such a great way to shift it from blame, know, the blame and the worry and it's this person's fault and that person's fault and if they had done that too, how are we solving it? Which then it's even can go a little step further and it's like, well, how can we, what can the two of us, me and you, what can we do? Is there anything we can do about it? Is there any groups that we can support? Is there anyone we can donate to? Is there anything?   And now it turns into this proactive, have some control over something and I can do something towards the solution rather than just yelling at somebody that I think is to blame, which does nothing, right? And now I've got, I love that. That really creates that critical thinking. What else have I not asked that parents need to know about talking to kids about the news and being literate with the media? Carl Azuz (25:52.31) I mean, one thing I just, I always underscore is to just make sure that you are having those conversations. You do, as I mentioned, have more influence in so many cases than you think you do. And, you know, to encourage your student, look, if you see something on the news that troubles you, we can talk about it, but look for different perspectives on it. Look to see how different major news networks are covering topics.   And one thing I think that's kind of fun to do, especially when it comes to major news networks, and this is, you know, whether it's CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, Fox News, whatever it might be, if you go online during a slow news day, there's not one big overarching international story, right? On a day when there's not a lot going on in the world, if you go online and you just click all the homepages, you can tell so much about these different news organizations and the stories that they prioritize tells you so much about where their leanings might be, where their priorities might be, what stories that they think people really ought to care about when there's not a big central event. And I think that that can help with students understanding students' media literacy, that these different networks bring different strengths and weaknesses to the table. I think that those are fascinating things. And I also think when it comes to news, and this is one thing I love about working on the world from A to Z is that it's not all politics. It's not all tragedy and war and gloom and doom and missing planes and horrible things. Yes. Well, in many cases it does. think, you I would argue for a student audience, you know, especially where teachers are the gatekeepers in a homeschool environment, parents are the gatekeepers. I would argue that they do want a variety. They want young people to see that there is a breadth.   Dr. Cam (27:25.495) But that's what sells.   Carl Azuz (27:42.7) to news that includes sometimes the news is some dude setting a Guinness World Record by bungee jumping off a bridge to dip a biscuit in tea. I mean, that was an actual Guinness World Record I reported on years ago. And so sometimes goofy things like that make news. Sometimes there's a dog that goes viral because it can't stop sneezing. And so like, you know, that's fun to look at. Sometimes there are events, you know, we've recovered a fashion show in a slum in Nigeria where the designer is like, I wanna open people's minds. I grew up in this slum. And now I wanna open people's minds up to the broader world. As a fashion designer, I'm able to have an outfit on the back of someone in a far flung place. And yet I'm showing that off right here in the slum where I grew up. We've had so many different international components and slice of life, cultural components that give students a sense of it's a big, broad, colorful world. And there are a lot of people doing things that might not directly impact laws in the United States and might not directly impact what you drive or the doctor you see or how you vote or whatever that might be, but they show you how people are coping. They show you how people are celebrating. They show you how people are interacting with each other. I think that's so important for students to see to have a well -rounded view of news and media in general. And also to kind of know that, you know, there are so many things going on outside our own bubble. And I think it's important for them to see that, that in some places, you know, well, there many countries where people aren't allowed to vote, or if they do, it's kind of rigged to begin with, okay, how are they coping? What are they doing? Do they have things they celebrate or festivals or, you know, events that they can get involved in? I think that a show that portrays all of that helps students just to kind of get outside their own community and their own locked mindset that we build around ourselves and to have hope.   Dr. Cam (29:41.525) Yeah. I love that. And it gives them an opportunity to just widen their world perspective too, which makes us have more tolerance towards people that are different than us. And I think that's extremely important too, to see that and to balance because we do, if we just looked at the news and the stories, it would sound like the world is just shot and everyone is evil or weird. And that's scary, right? Instead of going, there's actually, that's a small percentage, hopefully, of what's going on. We're just focused on that, but there's so much more. Carl.   Carl Azuz (30:14.168) Dr. Cam, I you raise a good point. And one thing I would add to that to kind of illustrate what we're talking about is in today's show, we had a story about Ukraine, obviously Ukraine and Russia being involved in a full scale war since 2022. And we can cover that big headline and many major media organizations will major on that headline, major on the violence, destruction and death and that sort of thing. We had a slice of life piece where Yes, we acknowledge that this has been going on and why it started and what different people say about it, but then it goes into students attending school underground. And what is that like? How are they coping? And obviously, how do you, there are no windows in the schools. They painted all the walls bright colors. They have teachers focusing and teachers teaching students, look, we have to do the best we can with what we have each day. This is it. This is a lesson. Let's focus on this. Let's learn. Let's get this education, despite the fact. that there might be bombs falling nearby above ground. It's an underground school. think just seeing that, seeing how people are coping in the worst of circumstances can hopefully inspire us in much better circumstances here in the United States where things are generally peaceful outside our doors. I think stories like that can make people grateful can help people see how others are coping, how other people, their lives are going on. They're still managing to get an education despite tremendous adversity they're facing in places like Ukraine or Afghanistan or anywhere else. And I think that just seeing that helps students get outside, maybe their comfort zone a little bit, but also, you know, the perspective they have every single day that, know what, maybe we should be grateful or this is better here or, you know,   Obviously we're mad about all these politics and all these other things. There are some people who have it worse and yet are still getting an education like I am. I think that does something for a student's perspective.   Dr. Cam (32:14.999) It's so important to get a perspective like that too, because I think it's very easy to compare yourself to the person right next to you and you forget that there's so much more going on in the world where even the person next to you, you've got so much more than so many other people. And I think it's hard to get that perspective. Especially again, when you're following on social media and everyone has more than you, you start feeling like you have nothing, right? That's hard.   Carl Azuz (32:42.69) Right, absolutely. We are in two places. Our homepage is worlda -z .org. And that's where I think the bulk of our viewership is at worlda -z .org. We encourage people, you you can sign up for a daily email that gives you a newsletter. It just gives you a preview of what's coming in each day's show. Any announcements we have, like if we're off the air for Labor Day or something like that, we let folks know. So that's where you can watch the show. You can sign up for the newsletter. You can request a shout out for your class.   Dr. Cam (32:43.691) So how do we find your show?   Carl Azuz (33:12.938) And then we're also on YouTube at youtube .com slash at the world A to Z. You need that little ad in there, but it's youtube .com slash at the world A to Z. And that's where people can also subscribe and watch there. And if they subscribe, they'll get the little notification when each new show posts. But that's where, you know, we'd love to see you. We'd love to get your feedback, which you can send us through our homepage. And we love to hear how people are watching and consuming the world from A to Z.   Dr. Cam (33:39.081) I love it. I'm going to show that to my daughter who's actually a news junkie. She tells me what's going on in the world because I am not a news junkie. But doing that, but even having something where at the dinner table you just say, hey, what interesting story came up. That's not like who got the most strangest, bizarre or happy story or anything like that would be fun and kind of teach kids to dig a little bit deeper too than just the headline.   Carl Azuz (34:06.442) Exactly. One of the most gratifying pieces of feedback I've received is that, you know, when students are watching our show, parents will come to us and say, my kid can discuss the news at the dinner table. My kid brought up an event that happened in some far flung place that we were able to discuss at the dinner table. That is an incredibly fulfilling thing that I'm grateful to have heard more than once. And I   You know, I'm excited to work on a show, grateful to work on a show like The World from A to Z that allows me to bring that to young people.   Dr. Cam (34:39.637) That's great and such a better topic than how was school today. No kid wants to answer that question. Carl, thank you so much for joining us today. I really appreciate it.   Carl Azuz (34:44.11) It's a start! It's a start!   Carl Azuz (34:53.89) Dr. Cam, it's been a pleasure. Thank you and thank you for everything you're doing to help make things better.    ABOUT THE SHOW The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #ParentingTeens #MediaLiteracy #CriticalThinking #DrCamCaswell

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  35:42
• Teen Self-Doubt: How to Help High-Achieving Teens Build Confidence

  Is your high-achieving teen secretly battling self-doubt? 😔 Mental health expert Jason Phillips joins Dr. Cam—The Teen Translator—in this powerful episode to decode the hidden struggles of perfectionist teens. Learn how to support your teen without adding pressure, embrace failure as growth, and balance achievement with well-being. Get actionable strategies to build their confidence and foster a positive self-perception, as Jason and Dr. Cam unpack self-doubt, academic pressure, burnout, and teen anxiety.   WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE Why embracing failure might be the best thing you can do for your teen’s growth. How you can support your teen’s drive for success without adding to their stress. What role parents play in teaching healthy self-care and boundaries to their teens.   5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Failure is a Key Part of Growth: Allowing teens to experience failure in a supportive environment helps build resilience and emotional strength. Model Healthy Boundaries: Parents need to show their teens how to balance work and rest to prevent burnout and foster healthy habits. Validate, Don’t Solve: Instead of offering solutions right away, parents should listen and validate their teen’s feelings, which builds trust and connection. Give Teens Agency: Empowering teens by encouraging them to make decisions and advocate for themselves promotes independence and self-confidence. Maintain Your Own Identity: Parents should avoid losing themselves in their role as caregivers and should continue pursuing their own interests and well-being for a healthy family dynamic.   🎧❤️ ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family! Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫  🔔 Remember to hit Follow so you never miss another solution—packed episode! 🙌   RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Free Confidence Guide: stepstoconfidence.com Podcast: Peace and Prosperity Podcast (available on Apple, Spotify, and other podcast platforms)     EPISODE CHAPTERS:  00:00 Understanding Self-Doubt in High-Achieving Teens 05:09 The Role of Failure in Teen Growth and Resilience 10:38 Balancing Achievement, Rest, and Mental Health for Teens 15:06 Building Teen Confidence and Self-Worth: Practical Strategies 20:11 The Pressure on High-Achieving Parents and Its Impact on Teens 25:34 Navigating Parental Involvement in High-Achieving Teens’ Lives 30:20 Modeling Healthy Behaviors for Teens: Leading by Example 35:39 Encouraging Positive Self-Perception and Self-Esteem in Teens CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Jason Phillips, LCSW Website: jasonlphillips.com Instagram: @JPhillipsMSW   CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell   FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam: Welcome back, parents! Today, we're diving into how to support high-achieving teens through self-doubt and burnout. Many teens push themselves to the limit but still feel like they aren't measuring up, even though their parents see their amazing potential. It's frustrating when parents try to help, but their words seem to have the opposite effect. To help us unpack this, I’ve invited Jason Phillips, a therapist and mental health expert who specializes in guiding high achievers to overcome self-doubt and build real confidence. Jason has worked with Fortune 500 companies, law firms, and universities, and today he’s here to help us understand how to support our teens through perfectionism. Welcome, Jason! Jason Phillips: Thanks for having me, Dr. Cam. I'm excited to have this conversation! Dr. Cam: So, Jason, tell us about your journey. How did you end up focusing on helping high achievers? Jason Phillips: It really happened organically. After graduating from the University of Michigan, I worked with military populations at the Ann Arbor VA and later served as the clinic chief at Fort Bragg. Over time, I noticed that corporate executives and leaders were drawn to my approach because I specialize in helping them overcome anxiety. That led me to helping high achievers break free from self-doubt and build confidence. Dr. Cam: That’s amazing. It’s so ironic that high achievers often struggle with self-doubt. From the outside, they seem so confident, yet many of them are riddled with anxiety. I see this a lot with the teens I work with, too. They’re getting straight A’s and excelling, but they still feel like they’re not enough. Their parents tell me that no matter how much they express their love and support, it doesn’t seem to help. So, where do you think this drive for achievement comes from? Jason Phillips: A lot of it comes from external pressures—parents, teachers, peers. I can relate to that pressure myself. I was a high achiever growing up, constantly pushed to excel. While straight A's were celebrated, they came with their own anxiety, because I felt like I couldn’t ever drop below that standard. External pressures, even from well-meaning sources like teachers and family, can make teens feel like they have to be perfect. That’s often where the self-doubt begins. Dr. Cam: That’s such an important point. Parents want to encourage their teens and help them live up to their potential, but the way they say things can sometimes have the opposite effect. How can parents motivate their teens without adding pressure? Jason Phillips: The key is to make room for failure. When we constantly tell our teens how great they are, they might think anything less than perfection means they’re failing. Allowing them to fail is essential, as it helps them see that mistakes are just part of the learning process. They need to understand that not being perfect doesn’t mean they’re not enough. Dr. Cam: I love that. It’s one thing to allow failure, but I try to encourage my teen to embrace it. The idea is that failing at something difficult means you’re pushing beyond your comfort zone, which is where true growth happens. So, it’s not about being perfect; it’s about challenging yourself and learning from those challenges. What do you think about that approach? Jason Phillips: Absolutely. Embracing failure is one of the best ways to help teens develop resilience. By pushing themselves outside their comfort zone, they’ll encounter setbacks, but that’s where growth truly occurs. It’s about focusing on what you tried, not just whether you succeeded or failed. Dr. Cam: Exactly! And that mindset shift can make all the difference. Thanks so much for sharing this insight, Jason. It’s such a helpful perspective for parents trying to support their teens. Jason Phillips: I don't know if you're into exercise or weightlifting, Dr. Cam, but there's this term where you'll ask, how many reps are we doing? Ten, twenty? And sometimes it's until failure, which means pushing yourself until you can't anymore. Jason Phillips: Because we know that's when the growth happens. It's not in staying in a comfort zone. I want you to push yourself to failure until you just can't do anymore. Jason Phillips: And then we've got kids who are constantly pushing themselves and never feel like it's enough. How do we balance that, where it's okay to be just okay and not amazing at everything? How do we communicate that without making them feel like we just think they're okay? Jason Phillips: It goes back to balance. As much as we want to push to failure, we also need time for rest. We can't just go, go, go, or we'll get exhausted and burned out. We need to carve out time to relax, watch TV, play video games, or sleep in. Jason Phillips: Make sure you're not just filling your calendar with things you have to do. You can put so much on there and never feel done. Dr. Cam: I want to emphasize that because I see a lot of parents who don't understand why their kids feel that way, but when you look at their schedules, they're packed. Every time the kids try to relax or scroll through TikTok, they hear, "You're being unproductive." Dr. Cam: You can't do that. If you have time for that, you have time for this. You should be doing this, doing that. We have this belief that we need to be productive 24/7, and that’s exhausting. It leads to burnout. We need to prioritize sleeping in and taking naps. Why is that so hard for us to prioritize? Jason Phillips: For high achievers, it’s almost like feeling guilty—what am I missing or not doing? You're good at so many things, but just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should. We need to incorporate rest, too. Parents need to be mindful and let kids pick a couple of things, but not everything. Jason Phillips: Parents really have to model that same confidence and boundaries. If mom and dad are constantly stretched thin, saying yes to everything, how can we expect our kids to do otherwise? When we model it, it's much easier for them to follow. Dr. Cam: Yeah, modeling is huge. And when we see our kids doing different things, we often need to look in the mirror and ask, "What are we modeling?" Often parents say, "My teen is amazing, but they have no self-esteem. They think they're not good at anything." How do we help them see their value when anything we say gets an eye roll? Jason Phillips: One thing I encourage is asking your teen what they could help someone else do. How could they mentor someone younger? That often builds genuine self-confidence. The second thing is to give less advice. Instead, listen more to figure out where the disconnect is. Dr. Cam: That’s so important and one of the hardest things for parents because we have so much wisdom to share, and we finally have an audience—but they don’t want to hear it. It’s frustrating. Dr. Cam: Instead of getting frustrated, be thrilled that your kid feels confident enough to figure it out on their own. That’s a plus! So, what do you think about asking your teen for advice? Jason Phillips: Yeah, it’s a huge plus. It builds trust. When you ask your teen for advice, it shows them that their thoughts are valued. It lets them know they have something insightful to add to the conversation. Teens probably have a lot of wisdom we’re not tapping into, and by listening to their advice and implementing it, it does wonders for them. Dr. Cam (15:06.54) The ability to not have to be right all the time as a parent is a real strength. I talk to kids who say, "My parents would rather die than admit they're wrong." That behavior is modeling the very fear our kids have: that you have to win. Jason Phillips (15:39.395) It gives them a voice. When we listen to our kids and ask for their input and follow what they say, it lets them know that what they say matters. Dr. Cam (16:07.726) Yeah, that is so key, and we don't have to agree with it. Jason Phillips (16:12.051) No, we don’t have to. It can start small—asking, "What do you want to eat?" or "What movie should we watch?" Not always having to control everything. Dr. Cam (16:22.595) Yeah, giving them a lot of agency is really important. Parents often say, "If I don't micromanage, they won’t do as well, and that hurts their self-esteem." But when you put the responsibility back on them, they understand they have to do things for themselves. Jason Phillips (16:59.755) It’s about building confidence. I remember my mom telling me to ask the teacher for help or ask a waiter questions. At the time, it was nerve-wracking, but it helped me advocate for myself. Dr. Cam (18:08.974) That's something really big with my daughter too. She has always been part of the conversation and voiced her thoughts, which has helped her value what she says. Jason Phillips (18:24.503) Right here. Dr. Cam (18:37.512) She’s very good at advocating for herself now. It took time, but it’s made a difference. When we say stepping back will hurt their self-confidence, it’s managing our own fears about how they’re feeling. Jason Phillips (19:12.683) Right. When you let them fail and be themselves, you're not coddling them but allowing them to learn on their own. Dr. Cam (19:50.862) Let’s talk about high-achieving teens and parents. There's a lot of pressure on parents to be high achievers too. Jason Phillips (20:11.413) Parents are often juggling too much—work, clubs, and kids’ extracurriculars—and then feel exhausted. They may not realize they’re not modeling what they want for their kids. Dr. Cam (20:14.894) What do you see with that? Jason Phillips (20:40.885) They don’t set boundaries and end up feeling burned out. When you look at their lives, they’re involved in everything—president of clubs, treasurer in groups. But they don’t have time to give 100%. They can’t model balance when they’re overwhelmed. Dr. Cam (21:42.358) Right. And parents often say, "My kid won’t do it," when it comes to sharing responsibilities. That’s another topic, but it’s important. Jason Phillips (21:54.903) Absolutely. Dr. Cam (22:10.378) There’s this belief that parents need to push, push, push, and kids should adopt that mentality too. Where does that mentality come from? Jason Phillips (22:27.287) It’s not healthy. Kids can only handle so much, and when they push back, they may act out. As adults, we can manage our emotions better, but kids don't always have the tools to do that. Dr. Cam (23:24.856) Right, we can’t make up for our past by pushing our kids to do what we didn’t get to do at their age. Jason Phillips (23:25.259) Exactly. Kids shouldn’t be expected to live out our unfulfilled dreams. Dr. Cam (24:01.046) It’s unfair because parents are taking over their kids’ lives and not letting them live their own. Jason Phillips (24:16.405) I spoke to an adult who said their parent was so overbearing with their golf that it hurt their experience. Parents were living out their dreams through their kids, and it wasn’t healthy. Dr. Cam (24:56.27) Yeah, it's tough to know where to draw the line between being involved and overstepping. How do we balance caring and supporting without taking over their lives? Jason Phillips: You can show up, but you don't have to show out. Be present for your kid’s activities, listen when they share their day, whether it's good or bad, but don't try to solve all of their issues. Overstepping happens when you try to be a part of their team or get overly involved in things at school. We’re the adults—we’ve lived through our teenage years, and they’re different from now. Step back and give them space. If you smother them, it could cause problems, even bullying. Dr. Cam: Yeah, it’s really tough. I think when we’re high achievers ourselves, we tend to extend that expectation to our kids. As parents, we see their successes as ours. So, if our kids aren’t high-achieving, straight-A, go-go-go kids, how do we not feel like we’re not pushing them hard enough? Jason Phillips: I always tell people to run your own race and stay in your own lane. Think of a track race—everyone has their own lane. If you’re looking over at someone else, you can trip up or slow down. Focus on what’s in front of you, and feel good about it. Comparing yourself and reflecting on what you didn’t do gets you into dangerous territory. Stay in your lane, run your race, and be proud of it. Dr. Cam: Yeah, staying in your lane—not just with other parents, but with your teen too. Let them run their race and cheer them on, but let them do their own thing, right? Jason Phillips: Exactly. Think back to when we were younger and our parents would comment on our music or clothes. We’d get upset, thinking they were outdated. Now, here we are, and sometimes I feel like I don’t get the music anymore. My wife teases me about it, and I admit, I’m outdated. Dr. Cam: Right, and that’s the thing. When we’re focused on what our teens are doing, we can lose focus on how we’re showing up for them. Jason Phillips: Yeah, sometimes we focus too much on living through our kids. We forget that we also need to live our own lives. When we’re confident in our careers, relationships, and identity outside of being parents, we model that for our kids. They’ll see that being a parent doesn’t mean sacrificing everything else in life. Some parents lose their social life, prayer life, and sense of self once they have kids. That’s not healthy for either the parent or the child. Dr. Cam: Right, kids don’t want you around all the time. If you’re overbearing, you risk creating an enmeshed relationship. Jason Phillips: Exactly. Kids need their space, too. Dr. Cam: Yeah, and one of the best things is when my daughter tells me, “I’m so proud of you, mom, for what you’re doing.” It’s a reminder that we’re both cheering each other on, doing our own things, rather than being too enmeshed. Jason Phillips: Yeah, it’s great when both of you are thriving in your own ways. Dr. Cam: Right, and some parents might feel they don’t have time for their own activities. But I always tell them: stop micromanaging your teen and spend some of that time doing something fun for yourself. You’ll enjoy it, and your teen will appreciate it too. Jason Phillips: Exactly. Pick one thing you used to love doing—whether it’s dancing, bowling, or reading—and do it. Show your teen that you have interests outside of them. You’ll become more interesting to them, and they’ll see you as a well-rounded person, not just a parent. Dr. Cam: Yeah, it makes you more interesting, and they’ll want to talk to you more because you have something unique to share. Kids don’t want to talk about their stuff with parents all the time—it gets tough. Dr. Cam: One last question. If a teen is constantly putting themselves down—saying things like, “I can’t do this, I’m not good at this”—how do we respond as parents? Jason Phillips: Yeah, that’s tough. Jason Phillips (32:56.663): Before we start giving them positive affirmations, I want us to build a stronger connection with that teen. You want them to be able to really open up to you and trust you. You want to be that safe space. Let me share the LOVE acronym. If a teen is constantly putting themselves down, first, listen. The L is for listen. Listen to what they're saying because there may be some disconnect. If they say they're not good at something, you can highlight all the awards and trophies, but you can’t do that first without listening. Be objective. Don’t put so much pressure on what they're saying. Don’t judge whether it’s bad or good. Listen objectively and have a neutral space. The V is for validate. You want to validate their feelings and thoughts. If they feel a certain way, don’t try to immediately take it away or say it's nonsense. Maybe they’re having a hard day or feeling insecure. Validate that with empathy. Once you do that, they’ll be in a place where they can be more vulnerable, and then you can point out what they’re missing. They might be putting a lot of pressure on themselves and thinking they're not enough. Dr. Cam (33:43.278): That’s so key. A lot of parents immediately respond with, "What do you mean? Yes, you are! You can do this. Look at all the awards!" They’re trying to give evidence that it’s not true. But what happens is they completely invalidate what the teen is saying, which often leads to the teen thinking, "You have to say that because you're my parent." If your teen says something like that or rolls their eyes, it’s a sign you need to go to the LOVE approach. Jason Phillips (34:52.022): Exactly. If someone immediately tries to combat what I say, I'll get defensive. For example, if you tell me, "Jason, that shirt is the best shirt I've ever seen," I’d probably say, "No, it's not. I have better ones." High achievers are often not great at accepting compliments. We point out our imperfections. Dr. Cam (35:28.396): That brings up another point. Many people mistake humility for putting themselves down. We're taught that the proper way to talk about ourselves is to put ourselves down. This creates a cycle of low self-esteem. How do we help teens see the good in themselves without making them feel like they’re becoming egotistical? Jason Phillips (36:35.413): Two things I would suggest: First, understand where it’s coming from. For instance, if you hear your child say something like, "I'm so stupid" or "I keep messing up," ask them, "What makes you say that?" Help them walk through how they arrived at that conclusion. Don’t dismiss their feelings; instead, try to understand the reasoning behind it. Secondly, encourage them to practice saying good things about themselves. It’s like an elevator pitch where they get to talk about themselves in a positive way. We're often uncomfortable because we’ve never been taught to do it. We're so used to others speaking highly of us, but we haven’t taken the time to say something positive about ourselves. It's not bragging; it's just being honest. Dr. Cam (38:27.426): That’s so important. Instead of saying, "I'm proud of you," I say, "You must be so proud of yourself." The focus is on them feeling proud of their own achievements, not just making me proud. This helps them take ownership of their success. Jason Phillips (38:33.495): It’s the idea of, "I want you to take care of you for me, and I’ll take care of me for you." Dr. Cam (39:03.671): That’s a great way to end. Parents, that's beautiful advice. Jason, how can people find you? Jason Phillips (39:13.089): They can find me on all social platforms at @JPhillipsMSW. My website is jasonlphillips.com. I also have a free confidence guide at stepstoconfidence.com, and they can listen to my podcast, the Peace and Prosperity podcast, available on Apple, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Dr. Cam (39:25.792): Thank you so much for joining us today, Jason. Jason Phillips (39:47.72): Thanks, Dr. Cam. Appreciate you having me.   About the Show: The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam   #HighAchievingTeens #TeenConfidence

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• How to Support Your LGBTQ+ Teen with Pride and Compassion

  In this heartfelt and insightful episode, Dr. Cam sits down with Heather Hester, founder of Chrysalis Mama and host of the "Just Breathe" podcast, to discuss the journey of parenting an LGBTQ+ teen. Heather shares her personal experience with her son Connor’s coming out at 16 and how it inspired her mission to support parents of LGBTQ+ teens. In this conversation, Heather offers valuable advice on how to navigate your emotions, avoid common pitfalls, and create a safe, inclusive space for your teen.   What You'll Learn in This Episode: Why your LGBTQ+ teen is often already sure of their identity when they come out—and what that means for you as a parent. The #1 question you should never ask your LGBTQ+ teen (and what to ask instead). How to support your LGBTQ+ teen through their coming out journey without unintentionally causing harm. Why your teen’s social media activity isn’t “influencing” their identity, but rather helping them find community and support. The importance of processing your own emotions with trusted friends or professionals, rather than relying on your teen for emotional support.   Top 5 Takeaways for Parents of Teens The most important thing parents can do is provide unconditional love and support, making home a safe space for their LGBTQ+ teen. Parents should process their own emotions and questions with professionals or trusted friends, not with their child. Social media isn't "influencing" teens to be LGBTQ+; it's helping them find community and understand themselves better. When you make mistakes (like using wrong pronouns), acknowledge them simply and move on without making a big deal about it. Focus on who your child is as a whole person rather than fixating on their LGBTQ+ identity   Enjoying the Show? Help others discover this episode by leaving a rating and review! Your feedback means the world to me and allows us to bring even more valuable insights to parents like you. Don’t forget to hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. Thanks so much for your support! 🙏💫    Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Podcast: Just Breathe, Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen (available on all podcast platforms) PFLAG: https://pflag.org/ Trevor Project: https://www.thetrevorproject.org/ GLAAD: https://glaad.org/   Chapters 00:00 Navigating the Challenges of Raising LGBTQ+ Teens 02:59 The Journey of Acceptance and Support 05:58 Understanding the Coming Out Process 09:05 The Importance of Unconditional Love 12:02 Addressing Parental Concerns and Misconceptions 15:03 The Role of Social Media in Identity Formation 17:51 Creating a Safe Space for LGBTQ+ Teens 21:03 The Path to Resilience and Acceptance 22:54 The Importance of Self-Education 25:04 Navigating Identity and Relationships 28:50 Understanding Loss and Expectations 30:32 Fluidity in Identity 33:14 Challenging Social Norms 36:01 Embracing Authenticity 39:12 Letting Go of Control 42:17 Supporting Resilience Connect with the Guest: Heather Hester: Website: https://chrysalismama.com Instagram: @chrysalismama TikTok: @chrysalismama   Connect with the host: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell   FULL TRANSCRIPT Dr. Cam (00:02.402) Welcome back, parents. Raising a teen is tough, but raising an LGBTQ+ teen comes with its own unique challenges. How do you create a safe, supportive space where your teen feels seen, heard, and empowered? Today, I'm joined by Heather Hester, founder of Chrysalis Mama and host of the Just Breathe podcast. With two LGBTQ+ kids of her own, Heather understands the importance of showing up with love, unlearning bias, and embracing the messy journey of parenting with pride. Hi, Heather. Heather Hester (00:44.509) Hi, it's great to be here. Thank you for having me. Dr. Cam (00:47.016) Of course! I love starting with a backstory. What inspired you to support parents of LGBTQ+ children? Heather Hester (01:03.539) The short answer is having one, then two of my own. When my first came out, it was eight years ago—time flies. He was 16, the oldest of four, and we had no idea it was coming. The first 18 months were really rocky for him and for us. We struggled to find resources and support. Once we got through that, I realized that there were thousands of other families going through the same thing. I had to do something about it. So, I started a website to share the resources I found, like PFLAG, the Trevor Project, GLAAD, and others. From there, it grew. When he graduated and was about to go to college, I thought starting a podcast might help reach more people, and it’s been such a rewarding experience. Dr. Cam (03:14.955) That's amazing. Heather Hester (03:26.227) The podcast has allowed me to connect people with wisdom to an audience of parents and allies hungry for information. Dr. Cam (03:42.338) I love that. Turning your story into help for others is so powerful. What went through your mind when your son first came out? Heather Hester (03:57.507) It was a defining moment. My son came out in a dramatic way, running away while my husband and I were out of town. It was terrifying. I had been raised in a very conservative Christian home, so my initial reaction was, "There's no way my child is going to hell." That led to the realization that I had a lot to learn. The first thing my husband and I did was ask, "What does he need from us?" We had no idea where to begin. The first 30 minutes were a blur, and we realized we were completely underprepared. Dr. Cam (05:55.096) What advice can you offer parents just starting on this journey? Heather Hester (06:15.399) We tend to overcomplicate things, but the most important thing is to show your child unconditional love. They need to know we’ve got their back no matter what. Everything else comes from that space. Heather Hester (she/her) (15:03.131) Yes, that’s a very common concern. I have two thoughts on that. First, it’s great that our kids now have access to find their people. When we were growing up, the reason many of our peers didn’t come out was because they didn’t know where to find others like them. They didn’t know who was safe to talk to or come out to. Now, with social media, they have that access. Dr. Cam (15:38.51) All those connections. Heather Hester (she/her) (15:38.51) Exactly. It can be a double-edged sword, though. Yes, social media has its dangers, but this access allows kids to find the communities they need. It helps them connect with others who understand their experience, even if those connections are online at first. Dr. Cam (15:56.036) Right, and I think that fear parents have of social media influencing their child to "join a trend" is more rooted in a misunderstanding. It’s not about jumping on a bandwagon—it’s about their child coming to terms with who they’ve always been, just having the words or the space to express it now. Heather Hester (16:14.001) Yes, exactly. And it’s important to remember that when a child comes out, they’ve often been thinking about it for a long time. They’ve already processed it in ways we may not have been aware of. And when they finally open up, they’re not looking for validation or attention—they just want to be seen for who they truly are. Dr. Cam (16:28.365) Right. The idea of this being a "phase" can be damaging. It diminishes their experience and makes them question themselves. That’s why it’s so crucial for parents to approach this with openness, trust, and patience. Heather Hester (16:42.303) Exactly. The last thing they need is for us to minimize their experience. They’re already dealing with a lot, and our job is to support them, not make them feel like they have to prove themselves our kids are able to find community and they are able to look at others and say, like they see representation, they see themselves and they're like, that's how I feel on the inside. Like I'm not alone in feeling that way. And so it's very validating for who they are and it helps give them the courage then to come out to you, right? To come to you and say, this is who I am, right? I had another thought on that and now it's going away. I'll have to circle back to that.   Dr. Cam (16:35.182) One thing as you, yeah, one thing when you're thinking about that too, and I think we find, I actually think that's a bigger plus of the social media talking to teens. A lot of them have found that that has actually saved their lives because they have found community and support where they can't find it in real life. The other thing is from what I hear too is that it's not that they come to them and change their mind. It's that they find the people that they relate to and then explain who they are. And that's why they're drawn. So parents see it as a cause this way. And really it's a cause of I'm finding you because I already feel this way. And now you're explaining to me how I feel and showing that I'm not alone and that there's others like me. And so you're not changing me. You're helping me accept me. And that's what I see a lot. Heather Hester (17:05.885) Correct. Correct. That is a thousand percent correct. And that was so beautifully the way you just said that was perfect because that is it. That is it. I kids are, and I think about, know, even going back to Connor, which was 2017, a while ago, but that he was out there because he felt he couldn't come to us. He was so scared to say anything to anyone that he was looking things up. He was trying to get answers to the questions of, this is how I'm feeling. And we want to be part of that process because the flip side is there are a lot of dangerous things out there. There are a lot of dangerous people out there who are preying on our kids. So if we are not having these conversations with them and and acknowledging like, this is actually a great thing that you've found this community and you've found these people where you do feel like it is so validating of who you are and where you can ask questions because there are a lot of questions that we can't answer as cisgendered, know, straight people. So that is a great, great thing. And we want to make sure it's safe. So that's, again, a reason to have that open communication to encourage like, okay, hey, I'm learning right along with you and I want to know and this isn't a bad thing at all. Dr. Cam (18:59.554) Yeah, I think as you're saying this, we come from a place of wanting to keep them safe by trying to talk them out of it. When that is actually shutting them down and in a way becoming their number one bully because we're turning away who they are. And it prevents us from being able to help protect them because now they don't trust us. Rather than saying, okay, this is who you are. How do you be who you are out in the world? and how do you keep yourself as you out in the world? And one thing you will always, always know is that I've got your back. And man, that is what helps kids make it through mentally because we go, my gosh, this has such a negative impact on their mental health. Well, the number one reason is when their parents reject them is why. So if we accept them, we can help them become more resilient. Heather Hester (19:50.003) Correct. Correct. Dr. Cam (19:56.472) to the people that aren't gonna accept him. And yeah, there's gonna be a lot of people out there that are going to be cruel. We just don't wanna be one of them. Heather Hester (20:03.751) Yes, correct, correct. And realizing our speech, there's a lot of work that goes into changing our speech and the words that we use that we don't even realize are hurtful or harmful. And I think that can be very difficult to, there's a lot of work that we have to do as parents and unlearning some of those, very deeply ingrained either beliefs or slang that we use, all of these things that we now, it is very important to your point to be aware of, to shift so that we aren't that bully, so we aren't that reason that our child is struggling with mental health because...they do have the world that's gonna come at them. So they need their home, their parents, their people to be, this needs to be like the safety nest, like 100,000 % safe, open, and just this warm, cozy place that they learn then how to build the resilience and build those tools that they're gonna need to go out in the world and handle all the things that come at them. Dr. Cam (21:33.142) Yeah. And I think, and we mentioned before, and I'm like replaying stuff that has happened, you know, in my life as well with being curious and wanting to show support without question, but also being a little selfish in asking questions and depending on them to relay my, to inform me and to educate me and being offended if they took what I said the wrong way and saying, well, that's not what I meant, rather than going, let me go learn as much as I can. And let me ask you if I can ask questions, because I do have questions that I want to understand. And also making it all about that. And all of a sudden, was their identity became just about that for a while while we settled in. which was unfair and I'm glad we're past that point where that's not the identity. But it was for a long time and I feel bad about that because I know a lot of it was me because of my curiosity. So how do we support them, show them we support them, but allow them to be them without making it all of it? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Heather Hester (22:54.503) All of it, yeah, absolutely, 100 % of their identity, absolutely. Well, I think you already really kind of hit the really important parts, which are go do your own work, go do your own learning, figure out the places. There's so many books, websites, articles, professionals that are factual. And that's also another very important piece of this is really that I've worked really hard these past eight years to like the facts. Like that's what I've been, I just want to know what is factual, what is true, what is correct, because there is a lot of stuff out there, right? So doing that work on your own. And then again, to your point, coming to them and asking, you know, saying, I have been learning, I've been reading, and I have questions. Is it okay if I ask you the questions? Are you okay with answering some questions? I know it's kind of weird. Whatever your, I mean, your relationship is going to shift and grow in a way that you never imagined it would, I promise you, and in such a great positive way. I will also say that it is very normal for both your child and for you to go, there is a piece of this like, coming out process that is the identity is 100%. They are gay, are bi, they are non-binary, are fill in the blank, right? And that is super normal that there is a time where everything revolves around that because they're trying to get their footing and we're trying to get our footing. I think the fine line in there, the happy space in there is that we're allowing them to kind of bounce around and do their figuring out. And while also knowing that we are a safe space for them to come to that we are happy to get the supports in place that they need. Right. And we are doing our own work. Right. So they're not failing this extra like, I've got to take care of mom. Like mom's going to come ask me a hundred questions today. You know, that whole, we do not want that. Dr. Cam (25:13.76) Yeah, I think the big one and I know what helped me a lot was to focus more on the nephew I've always known and the person I've always known rather than this new piece of identity, but focus on them. And so that is really, and it was hard at first because it was hard to see past this new, because my mind had to shift. a lot and old brains are harder to shift. My daughter used to get so mad at me because I would muggle up and just use the wrong pronouns all the time and my daughter would get so mad at me because she changed like that. I'm like, I'm struggling. I'm trying so hard. And so I said to my nephew, I go, please, I'm going to mess up. I know I'm going to mess up. Heather Hester  (26:08.093) Absolutely. Dr. Cam (26:10.488) pointed out and they said, he said, just don't make a big deal out of it when you do. Like you don't have to make a big deal out of it. Just go on and it's fine. Because I would be like, my God, I'm so sorry. And they're like, don't, don't, just go on. Heather Hester (26:24.691) Right. Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly, exactly right. And I think people are, you know, they would much rather that we try and make mistakes and, you know, mess up than not try at all, then just shut down, then just like be so afraid of, and they are, especially if they're teenagers, they're going to get impatient and they're going to snap at us, but they're going to do that regardless. Like this isn't because they're gay, they're snapping at us because they're teenagers and that's what teenagers do. Exactly, like this is, they are learning all of these developmentally like things that every teenager goes through, Developmentally. And on top of that, they're learning how to manage their sexual orientation or their gender identity on top of that. So there's a lot going on. Dr. Cam (27:01.518) They're learning to regulate their emotions. Heather Hester  (27:23.505) that holding space for that and allowing them just to be messy and all of that is really important and such a great thing. like it's not a lot, but it is so much to be able to do that. And you had said something about at the beginning of that. I don't remember what it was. It was something that triggered a thought, but it was so good on how to respond and how to kind of, guess, again, hold space for your person and just recognize that they are growing and changing and going through all of these things all at once. So not being overly sensitive to, yeah. Dr. Cam (28:05.677) I was gonna say because the other thing is, and I was talking about the pronouns, there's pronouns, name changes, the pronouns went through a phase of different, like there was a phase of different pronouns being used and things like that and names and things like that. And parents I see will roll their eyes, they'll get offended, well that's the name I gave you, I'm not gonna change that, that I'm mourning the loss of. Heather Hester  (28:38.023) Yes. Dr. Cam (28:50.488) How do we navigate and those feelings are real and that sense of loss is real. You raised a straight boy for years and now all of a sudden your child is not a straight boy, right? And so you do mourn the loss of that and what your, but it's not a loss of your child. It's a loss of your expectations of that child. So let's be real first of all. Heather Hester  (28:57.318) Absolutely. Dr. Cam (29:19.884) Those expectations were not fair and might not have lived out anyway. So how do we let go of these expectations in that feeling of loss without putting it on our kids? Heather Hester  (29:24.083) Correct. So completely normal. And I think absolutely necessary, actually, to go through, I call it the movie reel, the explosion of the movie reel, because that's how I visualized it in my head when I realized what was going on. And it is such a normal thing that a parent needs to go through, again, with a professional, with trusted adult with a friend, not with their child. This is not their stuff. This is not about them. This is about your stuff, right? And it's valid stuff. It's very valid. Yes, you did name your child that. Yes, you did, you know, use the pronouns he. And now your child wants to use the pronouns they or she or he, she, they, or it is fluid. And here's, and this is the other thing that I thought of a little bit ago is the idea of being fluid, whether it's, you whether it is with gender or with sexuality. It is something that our kids are able, and first of all, something that has been since the beginning of time. So this is not a new thing that has just popped up in the past five years. This has been historically documented since the beginning of time. Second, our kids are so good at just rolling with it. We and our generation and I think generations kind of around us are so connected to the binary and so connected to being able to check a box and really connected to these finite ideas, whereas our kids are not. And so for them, it's not that they're changing their mind. It's not that they're making a choice. It's not these things that are like very concrete ideas in our brains, they are able to really explore the possibilities of like, I'm feeling this, like this is what I'm connecting with. This does not really have a name or a label or a thing. So I'm gonna try to connect it to something you understand, adult person in my life, right? And so there is that kind of what seems like a breakdown in communication, but they are really actually trying to communicate as best they can their experience. And so it becomes again for us, another layer of the work to, and this was a hard one for me. Like this took a lot of, not that I was like angry or mad about it, but just like realizing how much of this was stuck in there of the binary of needing to have a box of being like, you know, kind of bumping back up against stuff and being like, why is this stuck in my vernacular? Like, why do I keep defaulting to this, you know, using these three words over here? So give yourself some grace knowing that this this isn't something that you just decide, well, I'm going to do the work, which Bravo, thank you. But know that that work is going to take time and you are going to mess up and you are going to make mistakes. And you're going to have to pick yourself back up and dust yourself off and be like, all right, I'm just going to keep doing this because I want to show up for my kid. I want to show up for the people in my life who I love. I want to keep evolving as a human being. Dr. Cam (33:14.794) Sorry, I think what is very difficult to is when and you were talking about, know the boxes We do as adults get very set in social norms and a lot of them are social norms We fought against when we were younger Before we were like set in stone that this is the way it needs to be and now we're trying very hard to Mold and box our kids up into social norms that we have accepted which by the way have changed drastically over the years and will continue to change drastically. So they are not law, they are social norms, but we are so stuck to them that we are sure we are right. And we are so convinced and we choose social norms, things that have been told to us that are different all over the world, but we choose those over listening and believing our kids. Heather Hester  (33:47.005) Yes. Dr. Cam (34:10.606) accepting our kids for who they are. And I think we need to really look at our social norms more important to us than our kids and allowing them to be their authentic selves. And some people I know are going to choose social norms. And I get that there are people that just are not able to let go of that. But for the people that can look at and accept their kids and want their kids to be authentically real because all of us want our kids to be happy. Kids are not going to be happy molding themselves to try to fit social norms that they don't fit into. They are going to be happy being accepted for who they are. Heather Hester (34:39.527) Yeah. Right. And I would say to that point, our kids, their, and kids just from all of time want to make their parents happy. They want, they want the love of their parents, right? So they're going to do whatever they can to get that love. So if, you know, people are saying, well, my child did do what I told them to do, or did, you know, say, well, it was a choice or it was a phase or it was this. Dr. Cam (35:01.195) 100%. Heather Hester (35:20.059) I have to stop and question that because how much of that was your child wanting to be loved? And I say that coming from a place of I did that for the greater part of 35 years of my life wanting that from my parents, right? So like twisting myself and knots and knots and knots until I realized like, no, like that doesn't that's not who I am, that doesn't work for me. And then having to do all the work to untwist, right? And knowing that that is also possible, right? That that is possible to do.  Our child, our children. just need us to love them unconditionally for who they are. And yes, that might cause you some discomfort. And yes, that might cause fractures in other relationships in your lives or a separation from societal norms that you are comfortable with. But it's something that I really encourage people to sit with and think about at the end of the day. What is more important, having that relationship with your child, being able to have your child walk into the world as who they authentically are now instead of 20 years from now or 30 years from now? What is most important to you? And really examining that. that takes courage to do that. Dr. Cam (37:02.382) It takes a lot of courage and I think there there's definitely a piece where people feel like well, this isn't the kid I wanted I wanted a This kid or I wanted a this kid and you know I'm trying to make them into this kid because that's what I wanted and I think that is a very unfair thing because you're given the kid that you're given just as they are given the parent that they are given and Heather Hester (37:27.997) Right, exactly. Dr. Cam (37:30.71) You are the parent that they were given. So our goal is to be the best parent for them that we can be if we want to be, you know, and I think that's hard for a lot of, it is, it's hard for a lot of people to accept this is the child that I have. Heather Hester  (37:38.043) Exactly/ Well, and I think there are two, you know, it is very, very difficult and I'm kind of trying to take a moment with that to respond wisely. Because I see such an opportunity in that for growth. Not only within allowing your child to really show up in the world as who they are, but for you to be able to pause and say, a second, like this is actually really cool. Look how much I can learn about this over here that I never even imagined I would have the opportunity to learn about in such an up close and personal way. Look at, you know, the direction that this is moving my life, right, in a way that I never imagined that it would move. And, you know, again, to your point, I do understand that it is difficult to let go of the expectation but it's also kind of what we sign up for when we decide to become parents is. Dr. Cam (39:12.494) I think what I'm finding too is the movie that we create for our kids future, right? Which we may do based on what we want. A, no matter what, there's no guarantee any of that's gonna ever happen. So we need to stop trying to get our kids to play out the role that we've created for them. I think also when we let it play out, it goes beyond anything we are capable of imagining. Heather Hester (39:34.685) Correct. Dr. Cam (39:42.446) And I just see all of the kids, my daughter and my nieces and my nephews living a life that would never have been any of it, what I specifically would have imagined for them. they're so much better than what I came up with, right? And they're doing beautifully and they're authentic and happy and they still struggle and there's still things that are problems and their life is not perfect because God doesn't want, we don't have perfect lives. They still have a lot of those, but that's part of the life and the fact that they all are able to turn to one another and to us. And there's a support system there that no matter what they go through, they know they've got people behind them is the most magical thing that I can see with the family. Heather Hester (40:33.233) Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. I think there's that piece of realizing that control is an illusion. And so the fact that we think we can control our kids and we can control the outcome of their lives is not, right? So the sooner we realize like, we have these little beings and like, What are their passions? What do they love? What do they want to, you what did they, how do they see the world? Right? What are they imagining? And, you know, exactly to your point and kind of at the same time, allowing that movie reel we created, it needs to fall apart. It needs to fall away. So doing the work that we have to do to be like, okay, yeah, I did create that. And I, I really did love that outcome for whatever reason. those things for whatever reason. And I'm gonna be okay with letting it go because I see my kid over here and my gosh, they're so happy. And they're so just like experiencing life in a way that I never imagined it could be experienced. they're human, they're human, right? So they're having the whole human experience. And which means there are gonna always be struggles, there are gonna always be peaks and valleys and all of that because that's part of being human. Dr. Cam (42:04.652) Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing. job is not to protect them from themselves or from the world. Our job is to support them and let them know they can handle whatever comes their way. And we're going to be there for them. Heather Hester  (42:17.195) Exactly. Yep. Teaching resilience, teaching, you know, yeah, that they can do this. They can go out there in that big world and do it. you know, at the of the day, we're always here to be a listening ear, to do what needs to be done, right? Dr. Cam (42:39.118) So Heather, how do people find you, particularly if they're looking for support? Heather Hester  (42:46.083) Absolutely. Yes. So I, my website is the best way to find me. You can contact me right through there through the contact page. It's chrysalismama.com, which is C-H-R-Y-S-A-L-I-S-M-A-M-A.com. I think that is really the best way that you can find me. The podcast is Just Breathe, Parenting Your LGBTQ Teen, and that is everywhere podcasts are. So that is a good way just to listen in. But yes, reaching out to me directly. I love when people reach out. I love talking with other parents and working with other parents. so bring it on. Dr. Cam (43:32.97) I love it. And what is the one takeaway you want parents to have from this conversation? Heather Hester  (43:39.685) my goodness. I think kind of the thread we have been pulling this entire time, which is it doesn't need to be difficult. Just love them, love them unconditionally and really embracing and understanding that that meaning of unconditional love and just holding that space for them. Yeah. Dr. Cam (44:05.824) I love it. Thank you so much for joining us, Heather. Heather Hester  (44:08.989) Thank you so much for having me.    About the Show: The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam

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  44:29
• "Mom, I Want to Die": A Mother's Raw Journey Through Teen Depression

  In this powerful episode, Dr. Cam and Jamie Edelbrock explore the challenges of parenting teens, from managing anxiety and depression to overcoming parental guilt. Jamie shares her personal journey of advocating for her child, building trust, and embracing the power of connection over control. Discover practical strategies for balancing guidance with independence, prioritizing your own well-being, and creating a safe space for your teen to be their authentic self. This is the essential conversation every parent of a teenager needs to hear!   WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE How to navigate your teen’s mental health struggles – Tips on addressing anxiety, depression, and the importance of support systems. The importance of building trust and communication – How to foster an open and trusting relationship with your teen. How to balance control and independence – Why letting go and empowering your teen is crucial for their emotional growth. The significance of self-care for parents – How focusing on your own well-being helps you better support your teen. Creating a safe space for your teen to be their authentic self – The power of authenticity in building a healthier relationship with your child.   5 KEY TAKEAWAYS FOR PARENTS OF TEENS Mental health challenges are not anyone's fault – Recognize that mental health struggles affect teens across all backgrounds, and it's essential not to blame yourself or your child. Parenting is about balance – Sometimes saying "yes" more often helps create a foundation of trust, making the necessary “no’s” more respected. Self-care is non-negotiable for parents – Taking care of your own mental health equips you to better support your teen. Empower your teen with autonomy – Give your teen the space to make decisions and take ownership of their actions, fostering independence. Worrying less about the future helps you enjoy the present – Instead of constantly stressing about your teen’s future, focus on building a positive, supportive relationship in the present moment.   ENJOYING THE SHOW? Don’t keep it to yourself! Share your favorite episode and leave a rating and review to help other parents find the support they need. Your feedback helps me create even more episodes filled with practical tips for you and your family!    RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline If you're in crisis or need support, call or text 988 for confidential help. Available 24/7. Psychology Today Therapy Directory: www.psychologytoday.com/ Search for licensed mental health professionals, including therapists, counselors, and psychiatrists near you. National Alliance on Mental Illness (NAMI): www.nami.org/ NAMI provides a range of resources for mental health services and local support groups. Jamie's Books: Tangled Up: A heartfelt exploration of mental health struggles and the path to healing, designed to inspire families to stay connected during difficult times. Be the Sparkle: A guide for parents, offering practical strategies to help children feel empowered and spark their own resilience. The Adventure of Little Selfie: A children’s book that encourages self-love and mindfulness in young readers.   EPISODE CHAPTERS:  00:00 Introduction to Mental Health Advocacy for Parents 02:58 Personal Experiences with Teen Anxiety and Depression 05:59 Navigating Parental Guilt and Finding Support in Parenting 09:04 Building Trust and Effective Communication with Teens 11:51 Why Letting Go Is Crucial for Parenting Teenagers 15:00 Finding Joy and Fulfillment in Parenting Teens 18:02 Balancing Teen Freedom with Parental Responsibility 21:04 The Impact of Worry on Parent-Teen Relationships 24:00 Encouraging Authenticity and Self-Expression in Your Child 26:49 Trusting the Parenting Process and Letting Go of Perfection 30:49 Building Strong, Supportive Relationships with Your Teen 36:44 The Importance of Parental Self-Care for Mental Health 42:41 Empowering Your Teen Through Autonomy and Independence 48:56 The Power of Connection Over Control in Parenting Teens 55:57 Embracing Imperfection in Parenting Teenagers   CONNECT WITH OUR GUEST: Jamie Edelbrock Website: www.jamieedelbrock.com Instagram: @tangledupbook Twitter: @TangledUpBook   CONNECT WITH YOUR HOST: Dr. Cam Caswell Website: AskDrCam.com Instagram: @DrCamCaswell TikTok: @the.teen.translator YouTube: Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Facebook: @DrCamCaswell   FULL TRANSCRIPT   Dr. Cam (00:02.259): Welcome back, parents. Today, I’m excited to speak with an amazing author, mental health advocate, and a dear friend of mine, Jamie Edelbrock. Jamie was my very first podcast guest back in 2019, pre-pandemic. We were both stepping into new chapters of our lives, feeling scared but ready to take the leap. Since then, Jamie, you’ve become a powerhouse advocate for children's mental health. You’ve published three award-winning children's books: Tangled Up, Be the Sparkle, and You and Me, The Adventure of Little Selfie. And on top of that, you’ve been raising your three teen daughters. So, let’s get started. What have you been up to? It’s been forever. Jamie Edelbrock (00:43.342): It’s been a ride. We lived overseas in Indonesia for several years. My kids grew up there, and that’s affected their mental health in ways I’ve learned so much from. I’ve become a strong advocate for mental health, focusing on anxiety, depression, LGBTQ issues, and autism. One of my kids was diagnosed with autism and ADHD, and now I’m working to become an RBT, doing one-on-one work with kids and families in ABA therapy. It’s been an adventure. Dr. Cam (01:50.053): The one thing I love about you, Jamie, is that whenever you face a challenge, you don’t just ask, "How do I survive this?" You think, "How can I become an advocate for this?" You embrace it, learn from it, and then help others. That’s so inspiring. Jamie Edelbrock (02:04.65): Yes. Dr. Cam (02:18.843): It’s amazing. You keep getting new challenges, and you handle them with such grace. How has your advocacy evolved over time? Jamie Edelbrock (02:31.725): Something I wanted to talk about today is a story I haven’t shared much. It’s about my daughter and her struggles with anxiety, depression, and suicide. She gave me permission to talk about it. She went through a very tough time in Indonesia, and as parents, we thought, "Why would they be depressed? Why would they be anxious?" But I’ve learned that anxiety and depression don’t discriminate. It doesn’t matter where you come from or what kind of life you lead—it can affect anyone. Dr. Cam (03:12.809): It’s so true. Jamie Edelbrock (03:37.718): We ended up leaving Jakarta early to get her the help she needed because the right mental health resources weren’t available there. I didn’t get to see my oldest graduate high school, and there were a lot of sacrifices. But the most important thing was getting her the help she needed. Dr. Cam (03:51.806): I’m glad you were able to get her the support she needed. Jamie Edelbrock (04:07.102): When we returned to the States, my daughter’s depression deepened. She ended up in the hospital, and she had to stay away from us for a while to get the help she needed. There’s nothing that prepares you for hearing your child say, "I want to die," or having them say, "She has to stay here and you can’t come get her." That experience was incredibly difficult, but it’s something every parent should know about—how to cope with that as a family. Dr. Cam (04:45.343): That’s so hard to imagine. Jamie Edelbrock (05:01.482): And it’s something I want to talk about because, as we’ve seen, anxiety and depression don’t discriminate. There’s no way to predict it. No matter how great your child’s life is, it can still happen. We’ve also dealt with suicide loss. My oldest lost a friend to suicide in 2020, and she ended up saving her best friend’s life from suicide in 2024. These experiences, though tragic, have deeply impacted us, but they’ve also shown me how crucial mental health advocacy is. Nothing prepares you for the weight of it when it’s your own child. Dr. Cam (05:44.549)  You spend your life advocating for mental health, focused on your children's mental health, yet you're not able to escape it. Parents feel guilty, shameful, like they're failing. But you're evidence that no matter what you do, We can't always avoid it. So what did you go through processing it as a mom? Jamie Edelbrock (06:22.614)  Automatically I thought, I'm doing something wrong. I know all the tips, tools, tricks. She has a good life. We have this set up for her to succeed. I'm doing something wrong. Then I started going back, mom guilt. Maybe I shouldn't have yelled, or done this. That's not the case. I think the first thing besides getting her immediate professional help was getting myself help and professional help and realizing that it's not my fault. I've learned that through therapy. It can be environmental, but it's usually brain chemicals. It runs in our family. While thinking, "what did I do wrong?" I talked to my aunt and learned it runs deep. That was an important key. It's not my fault. Getting her help says you're doing something right. We halted our world, got her what she needed, and got the help I needed. Then I started researching, knowing it's literally her brain chemicals. It's literally how her body and brain are working and something isn't right there. So realizing it's not our fault. We made changes in our lifestyle to help her and us. Dr. Cam (08:42.815)  My heart goes out to you. Parents start parenting from fear. They want to prevent their child from going through something, or they don't want anything to happen on their watch. They become hyper-vigilant, constantly asking, "are you okay?" Kids say, "I'd be fine if my parents would just leave me alone." Parents can't let go, building a wall and distrust. Kids don't feel like they can be their authentic selves. How do we manage that fear and the sense that something's wrong without kids opening up? Jamie Edelbrock (10:01.154)  We've definitely gone through that. I worry, I'm a fixer. I wanted to protect her, but she made it clear that's not helpful. I need to trust her. As hard as it is, trusting your kids after an event like this, they want to live their happy life. Learning to trust her and that she will tell me if something happens was helpful. Putting other adults in their life is huge because sometimes they don't want to talk to us. She'd say, "I don't like seeing you cry. I don't like hurting you." I had to work on that, get a therapist. Putting other adults in her life was huge. She has a therapist, psychiatrist, trusted adults, friends, and the suicide hotline. I cling to the fact that during her darkest times, she did tell me. And so I cling to that. Anytime she's ever been in trouble, she has come to me. Releasing that and trusting them, knowing it'll come back to you, is healthier. You're opening up that road for them to come. If you cling, you're putting a roadblock up. I've learned to trust they'll tell me. Dr. Cam (12:56.831)  Parents struggle most with letting go and trust. They fear, "if I do and something happens, I'm never going to forgive myself." We focus on what we need to feel okay, disregarding what our kids need. How do we live with that fear and discomfort to give our kids what they need to heal? Jamie Edelbrock (13:39.242)  I have a phrase: "It's not about me." That's hard because it feels like it is. When they're going through anything, I automatically think, "how is this gonna look? This hurts me. What is this gonna say about us, about our family, about me as a parent?" Especially as an advocate. Having kids do something my old community wouldn't agree with, "what are people gonna say?" I have to freeze and say, "it's not about me." My focus is my children, making sure they are their truest, best, and healthiest selves. It's putting your ego aside and asking, "how can I help you thrive?" That's our job. That saying helps Dr. Cam (15:17.533)  It's true and hard to let go. When it's our kids, they are not an extension of us. We often parent as if they are representing us. We are responsible for who they become. We are responsible for being the parent they need to become who they are. It's difficult to see we're not molding them. We are supporting and influencing them and their choices, but we are not controlling that. When they're going down dark paths, it's our job to be there, not to stop them. That is a very difficult thing for parents to hold on to. It's like, yes, it's my job to stop them. Jamie Edelbrock (16:17.302)  It's not safe or it's not what I would do or it's not what society would do. You have to think, are they not making a good choice for you or for them? I always say to myself and my kids, I'll let them make their choices. I sit back and I've learned to do that. Do it. If it fails or if you need help, I'm here. Everything in this life is figureoutable. If you try this and it fails, come to me and I will help you figure it out. If you don't come to me, that's okay because I know you can figure it out too. It could be the worst thing, it can be figured out. We will get through this. If I'm lucky enough, I get to help you. Just letting them know, I'm here. I will help you get through this if you want me to. Another phrase I say is, do you want me to help you or do you just need a hug? Instead of automatically thinking I have to help you? I used to be such a fixer. That caused a lot more attention. You think if you fix something, you step in, I'm going to do it. It's insulting. You're doing them a disservice because they can't do it themselves. It's saying you don't trust them. Just even by saying, "what are you going to do?" and "do you want my help?" or "how can I help you?" A lot of times it's "I can do it" or "I'll let you know." We have three teenagers. One's getting ready to move out. That's also, how can I help? I don't want to overstep. I want to wrap you in my arms and make sure you, bubble wrap. I always joke with them. But that's not true. Our job as parents is to let them fly. If you stick with, "I'm here for you and we're gonna figure it out," they will come back if they need help. Dr. Cam (19:09.971)  Parents get hurt or offended when their kids don't take their advice or won't listen. For me, I'm excited because that shows my teen feels confident to try to figure it out and not lean on me. There's nothing offensive about that. I'm like, yay, you. You got this. Jamie Edelbrock (19:36.138)  You did it. Dr. Cam (19:39.781)  It's another thing of it's not about me. It's about what does she need? You have to set aside your ego. I have found my daughters typically more right than I am. She has a way better memory and knows herself better than I know her. There's no way for me to know her better because I'm not in her head. Jamie Edelbrock (20:10.502)  My kids will always say, "you don't know what's in my head." Or "I got this." Or the best thing I can hear is, "I already did that." You're just like, "okay." They will say, "you don't need to worry." I traveled to Jordan years ago. I was on the top of Petra with a Bedouin shepherd. I was worried. I was asking him worry questions. Instead of enjoying the view, I was faced with worry. I was ruining the moment. The Bedouin Shepherd looked at me, And he said, "why you worry lady?" He said, "I would not have a job if people died." It brings you right back. Focus on reality. Dr. Cam (21:57.161)  When we spend so much of our children's teen childhood worrying, we miss the beauty and joy of what that period is about. We miss it completely and we ruin it for our kids. Our kids don't get to experience the joy of being a teen. I see so many kids that are hopeless, powerless, self harm, drowning themselves in their phone, miserable, trying to escape. In the real world it is fear, pressure, misery. They're not enjoying anything. The things they do enjoy constantly get taken away. Jamie Edelbrock (23:01.218)  With each of my kids, they're all so different and their interests are so different. It's so easy to say no. But finding that joy of them being teens and not being stuck on their phone is saying yes to what they want to do, even if it isn't what you pictured for their life. My husband and I were talking about this yesterday because something our youngest wants to do, and he just said, "it's not about me." Letting them be their authentic self is key for building your relationship with them, for them trusting you. Then you get to learn something new too. I had no idea that even existed. Dr. Cam (24:33.139)  Aren't we raising entitled kids if we're always indulging them in what they want to do? Does that mean we just sit back and indulge them and let them do whatever they want? Aren't they gonna become entitled, disrespectful kids? Where's that line drawn where we're still raising kids that are respectful, grateful, polite, and kind? Jamie Edelbrock (25:23.16)  That comes from connection with your kids. If you take that connection away by not allowing them to do what they want, I'm not saying dangerous stuff, but their hobbies, their special interests, they'll trust you, which builds a connection. How would I want to be treated? Growing up I didn't have money to do stuff that I wanted to. If someone was giving me everything I wanted to do for my special interests, I think that would have set me on a road to success. If you have the means and the ability, do it. Even if you don't have the money, every single thing is figureoutable. There are ways to help your kids in these special interests. What matters is that you are believing them. "I believe you want to do that. I believe you're good at that. You're gonna become great at that. I wanna see where this takes you." If it is a flop, now we know. Dr. Cam (27:17.887)  We focus so much on preparing them for the future. My focus has always been how do I make this stage of her life amazing? I want her to look back at her teen years and go, "those were freaking amazing." And I loved my relationship with my mom and I loved what we did and I worked really hard in these areas. And you know what? I did fail in these areas, but I learned from that and I've grown from that. And I know now based on my conversations with my daughters, like daughter, every, she does, like she's sad about moving onto the next phase, even though she's excited about it because she loves this phase. And every phase has been a phase that we've loved because we have made it something special. it's not been indulging in everything that I've said no to stuff that we can't do. But man, if I can say yes, 100%, I am saying yes. And those are the best moments we've had. Jamie Edelbrock (28:28.332) Well, yeah, and absolutely. And I think if we say no to everything just out of control or out of anxiety or because it's not what we want for them, you are building that wall. And if you say no every single time, they're not gonna trust you. If you say yes and let's try it, then when you do have to say no, they realize it is serious. So it's like, pick your battle. Like, say no to the things that really matter. And I've had to say that, I've had to say no. And my daughter has said, okay, I trust you. Because we say yes to so much and let's try it, let's do it. When I say no, she'll ask why and I let them ask why, I let them push back, I let them, because maybe it could turn into a yes. need to, what don't I know about this? But saying yes as often as you can, I think makes the nos that much more important. You know, like, this is a serious thing, you cannot do that. Or this is why I don't want you to do that. So yeah. Dr. Cam (29:25.108) Exactly. I had a mom tell me, who has an older child, that she looks back and wishes so much that she had not fought about all the stupid stuff they had fought about because now her daughter doesn't trust her on some of the bigger stuff. And she goes, none of that mattered. None of it mattered at all. And I was so focused on being right and controlling it and making sure she didn't do any of these little things. And I regret all of it because it just was stupid. And now when it's really matters and it's really important, she's digging herself out of a hole because her daughter doesn't trust her for the big stuff. I'm like, that is so incredibly true. And the big stuff, going back to mental health, is when your child is struggling with Jamie Edelbrock (30:27.18) Yep, it is, it really is. Dr. Cam (30:38.051) series mental health issues, which again, we've just said it's not on us. It's not about us. It's about them. But when they know we're going to figure it out and we're not going to lose it and we're not going to make it about us, then they trust us. Jamie Edelbrock (30:43.146) Right, right. That's the biggest thing my daughter was not making it about me. And it is about her. And she even said at one point in the middle of all of this, I don't want you to think this is your fault. and I think, yeah, having them being able to come to us with those big things, I think we think in the moment we're doing something wrong, but because they came to you, you're actually doing something right. And the way to get to that rightness is to cultivate that relationship with them now when things are good. And it's by saying yes, it's letting the little things go. I've been saying all these phrases I use, but it's true. Another one is I don't want to fight you. and the argument stops or I'm going to go to my room until we're both calmed down. I'm not going to put you in time out or till you're grounded or take away your phone. I'm going to calm down. And once I've calmed down, we can talk about this because I know this is important to you. Those little things matter for the big stuff. You're really you're giving yourself and your child a gift by doing those things when things are right. for when things go wrong. Like you can open that gift up when the things go wrong. Dr. Cam (32:16.253) Yeah, I love that, the gift. That's beautiful. And it is something that they have to turn on too, because the one thing that also is very foundational when kids are struggling is to know without a doubt that they have a support system there and that they have somebody else that believes in them, because it's very hard to believe in themselves. And if they don't have anyone else, particularly their parents, that believe in them, How are they going learn to believe in themselves? But when they know, and I think there's the difference between feeling pressure saying, okay, I'm responsible for my parents' emotions because if I'm doing something and I'm responsible for how they feel, that's a lot of pressure on me and I can't handle the pressure because now I'm responsible, but I'm not, they're not responsible for how we feel. They're not responsible for making us happy. They are not responsible for making us feel valued. That is not their job, right? Our job is to do that. Jamie Edelbrock (33:17.102) Right, right. It's easy to fall into that trap when you're a parent though, to think that. Dr. Cam (33:25.081) It is. It is so easy to do that and then to get really resentful to them for not making us feel okay. And that is not correct. You made me feel disrespected. You made me feel this. And that is a very unfair thing because we're making them feel that as well in the same respect, but we don't like them saying that. Jamie Edelbrock (33:30.744) Like, you're in trouble because you hurt me. You made me mad, so you're in trouble. Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Cam (33:54.535) So there's a lot of kind of irony or, know, there's a little confusion going on there. They're like, well, you made me mad, but I'm not allowed to be mad. Now I'm mad at you and now I'm in trouble for making you mad. I'm confused. Jamie Edelbrock (34:05.419) It's so true. And again, that goes back to how do you want to be treated? If I was in this conversation or on the other end of the conversation, how would I want to be spoken to? How would I want to feel? And as soon as you realize that, like, I would hate it, or I hated it when my parents talked to me like this, why would I think that's okay for my kid? When we were in this mental health facility with my daughter, she would go through counseling sessions and therapy sessions and then they would once in a while pull me into the therapy session. And the first thing the therapist said to me, she looked me dead in the eyes and said, but what are you doing for you? Like you're doing all of this. And you know, my daughter is seeing. doesn't like to see me cry, doesn't like to see me upset. Like you said, automatically that puts the pressure on them. Like I need to hold this together because I don't want my mom to be upset. And she said, how are you controlling your emotions around her? Like what's helping you? And I didn't have an answer. One, because life was chaotic in the moment, but it was very much like... Jamie Edelbrock (35:23.872) You're right, your daughter does need to see a therapist and a psychiatrist. What are you doing? Like, it's like she flipped it right on me. Not because it's my fault, but because when I'm okay, that's gonna help our relationship. And I think that comes down to that then you learn what they're doing is not about me. What they're doing, they're not trying to hurt us. They're not trying to, it's like... You all of sudden, well, I all of a sudden saw us as two completely separate individuals versus, we are, we absolutely like, like you said, not an extension of us. like, okay, I am living with an almost adult. let's figure this out. And so that's why I think it's so important. And I think the most advice I think I would give to any parents out there was seek help for yourself. Dr. Cam (35:55.071) but you are. Jamie Edelbrock (36:17.58) That is so important. When it comes to your kids, yeah, it's not about you. It's not at the same time, you are about you. Right? Yes. So you need to get the help. You need to get like focus on you. It's for you. Because then everything trickles down. Dr. Cam (36:39.039) For you. Exactly. 100 % for you. Jamie Edelbrock (36:44.064) And everything kind of falls into place. When you're focused on yourself, when you're focused on helping yourself and self-help and getting in your right zone, and that could mean a lot of different things. I've had to, there's, you know, people have had to like let go of, there's, you know, there's situations or things I've had to be like, okay, no, I'm moving on. I'm bettering myself. But when things are right with you, things will trickle down and be right with your family and your kids as well. Dr. Cam (37:11.327) I hear parents go, well, I don't have time because I'm doing all this stuff for my kids and I'm doing all this stuff for my family and I don't have time for me. And I think if you are doing all this stuff for your family, right there's the problem because that's not your job to do all that stuff for your family. Support them, but let them do for themselves because that helps them more than you doing for them. Jamie Edelbrock (37:25.292) Right. Yeah. Dr. Cam (37:36.521) So if you're, if you're doing all this and a lot of times we're resentful towards them and they're in great, they're not grateful for all we're doing and I'm giving everything of mine, they don't want it. So they're not grateful because they don't want it. And you're making them feel bad for giving them stuff they don't even want. So step back. They want freedom. They want their own ownership. They want that. Not for you to not care, but for you to care for yourself. Jamie Edelbrock (37:46.36) It's true. It's true.  Dr. Cam (38:03.175) and take time because they're watching. How do I value me while I'm watching how mom values her and takes care of her? And then you don't feel all this anger and resentment towards them, which takes away a lot of the stress. yeah. Jamie Edelbrock (38:16.16) It does. Like I said, it becomes a roadblock. When you have control you have, I just picture it like two fists coming on a road like, nope, in order to get by, it's going to be a fight. But as soon as you let go, it just opens a path for peace and communication and a better relationship. Yep. Yep. Dr. Cam (38:31.133) And they enjoy being around you and they trust being around you and they want to be around you when you're when you are someone that you want to be around yourself. Right. And not controlling all of this other stuff. So to me, if you're feeling any resentment or stress or any of that, that is not your kid's fault. That is on you to let go. And how empowering is that? Because now we don't need them to change for us to be OK. Jamie Edelbrock (38:40.425) Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I saw this firsthand the other day. I used to be like, hey, if the house is a mess, why aren't you helping? why? Like, don't you see the dishes? Don't you see the laundry? Don't you see the trash? And they don't, to be honest. Like, it doesn't matter to them. They don't care. So, but it matters to me. So I had to learn to like, okay, I can go to bed with dirty dishes in the sink. I can let the laundry sit on the couch. I'm tired. I'm going to bed or, you know, prioritize. And, Dr. Cam (39:15.955) They don't, and they don't care! No!  Jamie Edelbrock (39:31.242) They know how to a sink or a dish. They know how to get their clothes if they need to. But I was out with my two other kids, but the other one wanted to stay home. And she was home, and I came home, we left the house with, it was a mess. Came home, and she was sitting on the couch with this smile on her face, like. I'm like, what? What's happening? What's going on? And she just kept smiling until I looked up at the kitchen and saw that it was completely clean and she had made homemade cookies. And I, at that moment was like, I hugged her, I like, this is so amazing. Thank you so much. Like, thank you, thank you, thank you. But that was done without asking. That was done without nagging. That was done, like I would get to it, absolutely. And if I asked for help, they would help. But... The fact that that was done on their own just because they wanted to do something nice, that was like, okay, they, yes, yes, yes, yes. They don't care, yeah. Dr. Cam (40:29.703) and they know your love language is a clean house. They don't care, but yeah, I love that. I think it's focusing too on what their strengths are as well because like my daughter will leave stuff around and she knows it drives me nuts and everyone's gonna be like, you know, it drives me nuts. Can you clean that up for me? I know it's not for you, but can you clean? But then she'll do her stuff. Like when I was sick, she's like, I'm gonna run across the street and she came back and she had. Cough drops and a tease and like all this stuff and she's like I'm gonna take care of you because that's her love language like she loves Cleaning up not her thing taking care of her thing. I'm like, okay So I'm not gonna get mad that there's some dishes that don't haven't been clean the way I want them to be clean Cuz that's not me. But man how cool of that, but she just Jamie Edelbrock (41:00.707) It is and that's it's important to focus on what they're doing right. Focus on their strengths. Focus on and bend into that. Lean into that because that's where you're going to see them shine. That's where you're going to like it'll help you stop nagging the little things that are bothering you when you focus on like wow you're really good at that. Like you're really good for caring for others and for me and that's their strength. I have found that not nagging about chores and homework and all of that stuff. When I do say, can you help? Like, can you bring in the garbage? They do it like that. It's not even an issue. But if I were to nag them, exactly, exactly. That was a hard, like if they say, no, I don't want to right now. Or, you know, my one teen is like, I just got off work. My back hurts. I'm like, okay. Dr. Cam (42:00.115) Yeah. No. And they're allowed to say no too. Jamie Edelbrock (42:15.662) Like I understand because in that situation, I would probably say the same thing. I don't want to do it. It's not good for me right now. And I think that's a powerful lesson when your kids say no, like letting them say no, because when they get out in the real world, they need to have that, what is it, that tool in their toolbox to be able to say no and mean it. And people need to respect that. Dr. Cam (42:41.801) I think a lot of parents fear that if they do that, that's all their kids will ever do, is no, no, no, no, no, no. And I have found that they will try it once and of course their kid is gonna say no. And then they get mad and I'm like, well, they weren't allowed to say no then. And when you do it for a while and you set that precedent and they know that they can say no, that's when things shift. But that doesn't change overnight. It does not change overnight. And then if they... If their answer is not what we want their answer to be, then we get upset too. And I'm like, that's not the point either. Point is not for them to now suddenly do what we want them to do on their own. That's not the point. The point is to respect what they're doing. And it's once we respect that, they start respecting us a lot more and they do jump in when it's on their terms and it makes them feel good. Whole different ball game. And it's amazing how much they like love to help. Jamie Edelbrock (43:21.166) It doesn't feel natural when you first do it, especially, you know, the way I was raised and how I started raising them as kids. Like, don't you say no to your mom. Like, how dare you? Like, I told you to do something. Like, that is, you need to respect me. But then you think, I have never respected anybody that demanded respect. You know, I haven't. And if someone wouldn't listen to, yeah, if someone didn't listen to how I was feeling or really cared, they're blocked. That wall is up, or I don't trust them. And if I have to work with them or be with them, that's not gonna be a good relationship. And so the same goes, and especially for our kids. Dr. Cam (44:01.663) No. It's on how respect is made. Jamie Edelbrock (44:27.278) Like that's where it goes back to treat them how you want to be treated. And if you want them to respect you, you need to respect them. And that isn't by demanding. That's not by dictatorship. That's not, I mean, that's one thing I say all the time is parenting is not a dictatorship. It's a relationship. And when you have that relationship, then the connection is there. And that's when, that's what matters. Dr. Cam (44:34.516) I think parents really, really struggle with that because it feels like you're giving up authority. It feels like you are letting them rule the world and you are letting them have their way. And I think what's really important is when we have that thought process and that mindset, we are seeing and viewing our kids not as human beings, individual human beings. We are seeing them as our subjects, our things to control. And that right there is what causes so much friction and disrespect. We are not saying, yes, we are adults. Yes, it is our home. Yes, it is things that we want to influence them and teach them. But it's not done through demand and yelling and control because that's not how humans work. And kids are human beings. And I think that's where we're separate. We're not seeing kids. As humans, we're expecting things and we're expecting them to respond to things that humans do not respond to. And we need to let go of this view that just because we raise them, that they should be a different way towards us despite our own behavior. That is not how humans work. Jamie Edelbrock (45:55.576) No, and I never understood, you know, my parents, it was very controlling, like, parent-child relationship. But then eventually we leave and that control, their control is gone. And then what? Like you kind of left floundering or I don't know what to do or we're always expecting someone to be in control of us or tell us what to do. So you either are underdeveloped in that area or you go off the deep end and because you're free finally. And so I think, I can't remember the exact wording you just used, but yes, they should be in control of their lives. They should be in control of their, know, kids should be what's going on in their brains, in their minds. I think you said something about parents being worried, like, my gosh, they're gonna be the center of the universe or whatever. They should be in their lives. We are, like, and that's how they learn their independence, their self-respect, that's how they know the feelings and emotions in their body. That's how they can tell when something's off. That's how they learn. And it's our job to be there to help them figure out their authentic best self and what's going on with them. And by trying to control them, we are just hindering that. The control doesn't last forever, so it shouldn't even be there at all. But if you're a parent that is so concerned about controlling your child and their actions and making sure they don't mess up and they're doing things the right way, you're actually hindering them. You're stunting their authenticity and their growth at being an adult. Because eventually your control will stop when they move out of the house. Dr. Cam (47:50.793) Right. And what you can do and what is your most powerful thing as the parent, which is through connection, is influence. And when you're controlling, you have minimal influence, which is what makes long lasting change and really helps them learn how to make good decisions and trust you to talk through decisions. And that's what we want to teach them. So as parents, yeah, we have lots of influence. Yes, we do want to set up some rules and regulations to keep them safe with them, understanding them, because we're teaching them. We're teaching as parents, we're not controlling. And I think that's a really difficult, difficult thing for parents to embrace. It feels completely wrong and uncomfortable and no, I'm supposed to be the master of everything and then wonder why their kids don't trust them or won't talk to them. And that's why. Jamie Edelbrock (48:56.962) Yeah, it is. Dr. Cam (48:57.087) So you can do it. That is definitely a choice, but you can't have both. Jamie Edelbrock (49:02.99) No, and you need to decide, think. I remember the turning point in my parenting where I was like, this isn't working. What I'm doing is not working. I don't like the way the kids are feeling. I don't like the way I'm feeling. Something's not working. And so, it felt at the time like I was giving up, but what was happening was relationships were finally starting to build. letting them be themselves and just letting go of that control and that power and really respecting what they want to do even if it's like what's what do you want for dinner what movie do you want to watch what do you want to do today you just want to rest it's like but I had all these things planned for us okay we'll have a rest day you know like yeah that that letting go I think is essential if you want a good relationship with your kids and especially when they leave the house. Dr. Cam (50:05.075) Yeah, and I think going back to even what you were saying with mental health where, you know, no matter what you did, it wasn't going to change the fact that your daughter was suffering from depression. It just, that was, it was what it was. And I think we often think and imagine our kids as like these wild beasts that if we don't control and contain them, they are going to wreak havoc on the world and they're going to be nasty, wild, ugly people. And what I have found is The kids that are nasty, ugly, wild people are the ones railing against feeling controlled. And the kids that are not are the ones that don't feel a need to rail against control and are given that spot. And you know what? There are going to be kids that are going to make some terrible, bad, awful mistakes, no matter what we do. Jamie Edelbrock (50:58.22) Right, they're something, yep. They make their own choices, yep, yep. Dr. Cam (51:00.231) We can control it and they're going to fight our control. And there's going to be kids that no matter what we do aren't. We got to look at who our kid is and how to best support them. But we have to start, we have to understand who they are individually first and figure out what works best for them. But immediately going, got a controller. It's going to get out of control. It's not, not a great place to start. And that gets us into trouble. Jamie Edelbrock (51:25.45) No. Yeah, and I think that's why it's important if you do have a kid that is like that and you're like, what is happening? Is to seek, make sure they're safe and seek professional help if they want it, because they're also at this age where I don't want to go to therapy, I don't want to go. You can't force them, but to get help for yourself. Get tools in your toolbox and make sure that you are mentally healthy and that you have someone you can talk to. because it is uncomfortable when you don't know what to do with your child and you've done everything right. But I think the most important thing, like having that connection, like you said. So if or when that does happen, they know you're a safe person no matter what. Like they know that your love is unconditional, truly unconditional. Not if you check these boxes, not if you look this way. or if you get your act together, then you can come home. It is a truly, I am here and I will listen and I will help you figure this out. That's why the connection is important. So they can come to you when they're Dr. Cam (52:31.859) Yeah, they need to trust. They need to have that. They need to believe. And so if kids are being distrustful or disrespectful, we need to go, why do they feel the need to act that way? What's going on? What's going on? Jamie Edelbrock (52:47.597) Yes, find the why behind it. That is huge too. Okay, you made this bad choice or this poor decision. You learned your lesson, but let's find the why. That's been huge in our family. Why is this happening? do you need to fill in your life or what's missing or what? And just being able to have that conversation is huge. okay, let's talk about the why. Dr. Cam (53:14.781) Yeah. I have just found if in doubt, matter what, nothing goes well when I start in a place of criticism and being mean and being mad and all of that. When I approach anything that way, it never goes well and it doesn't help. When I approach things from kindness and from curiosity and from giving her the benefit of the doubt, we always end up somewhere way better than where we even started from. Jamie Edelbrock (53:15.244) Let's figure this out. Dr. Cam (53:44.251) And that to me is just key. There's no reason to be unkind. There's just no reason. Jamie Edelbrock (53:44.27) 100%. Jamie Edelbrock (53:49.942) I love that so much. It's so true. It's so true. And that goes back to how do I want to be treated? Something my sister said that was so great that I've held close to my heart is she said our relationship isn't fragile. And I think about that with our kids. They can, know, bad things can happen. They can make wrong choices. They are who they are. But my love for them is not fragile. They can throw what they want at me, but I will stand there because not literally. No, no, but you know what I mean. Like the words or whatever happens. Dr. Cam (54:23.699) Not literally, they can't throw knives and stuff. not literally. I just know people get real stuff and that's not a joke. People get real stuff thrown up. We got to step back, right? Yeah. But again. Jamie Edelbrock (54:34.849) That is not a joke. Yes, that is not a joke. Absolutely. you, our, happens, my love for you is not fragile. Our relationship is not fragile. It will be fragile though, if you hold on too tight. That breaks easy. Dr. Cam (54:41.715) Yeah, I love that because there's no nobody in our family is walking on eggshells because we're just stomping on them because we know that we're going to get through it. Yeah. Jamie Edelbrock (54:55.863) Absolutely. And I think that's the best relationship to have with your kids. Like, give it to me. Tell me. Like, let's work it out. And call me out. yes, yes, yes. Yeah. Dr. Cam (55:15.079) And I can call, we can call each other out. We call each other out, not disrespectfully, sometimes jokingly, but we call each other out. Absolutely. Jamie Edelbrock (55:24.084) Right, of course, and I think that's important. That's so important. And I learned so much. I'm like, I had no idea. Like, or I didn't know that that was a thing. Or like, I'm so sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn't think that would hurt your feelings, and I'm sorry. Dr. Cam (55:36.031) Yeah. I feel a lot of times people think that that's being a weak parent, but I see it as being a very strong parent because we're able to parent despite, and I'm not saying I don't have an ego. I do. It's being able to parent despite that. It's being able to put that aside. And that's not an easy thing to do at all. Jamie Edelbrock (55:49.154) No, it's not. And those voices, I mean, there are critics and there are people, people are going to parent how they want to parent. They have those voices and those are things that, okay, this is working for me and my family. And it's so important to turn those voices off sometimes. Like, hey, I am not getting, like, I'm not growing from you saying that. I'm like. That actually hinders my growth from these things or like the things I'm reading or whatever it is and like protecting your mental health in those ways too I think is huge. Dr. Cam (56:32.979) Yeah, parenting is not a report card. I'm not trying to parent to get all A's based on somebody else's qualifications. That is not my job. Whatever other people think, they think. That is fair for them to think. I need to let that go because what matters to me is what my daughter thinks and what my daughter is feeling. That to me is the only, if I have a report card, that's the only one that's allowed to fill it out. Nobody else.   Jamie Edelbrock (56:56.622) Yep, absolutely. Yep. Dr. Cam (57:01.119) I'm to get a go check. think I'm getting pretty good grades right now, but we'll see. There's times where I will bomb a test. So man, I will bomb a test. No doubt about it. Jamie Edelbrock (57:07.498) Yes, so true. And it's the repair after you bomb the test going back and like, okay, sorry, how can I have a retake? Yes, I need to redo this. I think that is huge. Like I messed up. I know I did. This is what I'm gonna do better. Let's redo it. And that's huge for building trust too. Dr. Cam (57:14.537) Can I have a retake? I go get a retake. Yep, I go get a retake. Yep. I'd start this again. Yeah, it is. And then she does it with me as well. Yep. Jamie, we could talk probably for about 10 more days nonstop without even taking a breath. Jamie Edelbrock (57:31.49) Yeah, yes, because you're modeling it. Yep, same. I know it's been so good to talk with you and just revisit our friendship. love this. Dr. Cam (57:47.951) I know we will do it. We'll do it offline as well. So Jamie tell people how they can find you. Jamie Edelbrock (57:54.478) Sure, yeah, you can go to jamieettelbrock.com that has links to my books and links to my social media. I'm on Instagram, it's Tangled That Book. And there you'll see, that's where I'm probably the most active. Every once in a while I'll do a blog post if my heart feels like it. But yeah, I think Instagram is probably the best way to get a hold of me, Tangled That Book. Dr. Cam (58:16.755) Yeah, I love your content. It's beautiful. One thing that you want people to what we've talked to cover so much, what is one thing you would like people to walk away with from this? Jamie Edelbrock (58:30.446) I really think it is help yourself so you can help your kids. I think that's the main thing because kids are going to struggle. You are going to have that. If your kids aren't struggling then they're hiding something from you. And so it is very important to have a strong foundation and having your mental health. and emotions in check. So when that time comes, you can help them exactly how they need to be helped. Dr. Cam (59:01.285) I love that our job is not to prevent them from struggling. Our job is to be able to make sure we're strong enough to help them and support them.     About the Show: The Parenting Teens with Dr. Cam Podcast is your go-to resource for navigating the challenges of raising teenagers. Hosted by Dr. Cam Caswell, an adolescent psychologist and certified parenting coach, this podcast offers practical parenting strategies, expert advice, and real-world insights to help you build a stronger relationship with your teen and support their emotional growth. Whether you’re struggling with teenage behavior or looking to improve communication, each episode provides actionable tips to make parenting teens easier and more rewarding. Perfect for both new and seasoned parents, this podcast helps you build the confidence to handle teen challenges and thrive together. #theteentranslator #drcamcaswell #parentingteenswithdrcam #MentalHealthMatters #TeenAnxietySupport  

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