The Biblical Mind

In this episode, Dru Johnson and Mike Tolliver reflect on the Center for Hebraic Thought’s evolving impact and expanding community. They revisit the promise made in 2025 to annually assess their work and celebrate how that commitment has borne fruit: from the flourishing Hebraic Thought Facebook community and its scripture reading groups, to the launch of a Michael Polanyi reading club. They announce the inaugural Bible First Conference Series, co-hosted with the American Bible Society, exploring how various Christian traditions engage politics through a biblical lens.

The conversation highlights recent standout books—many by past podcast guests—including Becoming God’s People by Carmen Imes, Leviticus on the Butcher’s Block by Phil Bray, and Grounded Theology by Cynthia Schaefer-Elliott and Libby Backfish. Dru and Mike also preview the new Tracing Biblical Thought book series, designed to bring scholarly insights to general audiences in accessible 100-page volumes.

The episode closes with a candid discussion about cultural headwinds—from Stoicism to Neoplatonism—and the Center’s commitment to reclaiming biblical categories for the church. They emphasize the need for translations and tools, like the Lexham English Bible and the NET Bible, that bring readers closer to the thought world of Scripture.

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Chapters:

00:00 Navigating Change: New Beginnings in 2026
03:09 The State of Hebraic Thought: Community and Events
05:57 Engaging Conversations: The Bible First Conference
08:58 Exploring New Literature: Book Series and Recent Releases
12:08 Anticipating Future Works: Upcoming Books and Insights
21:45 Exploring Biblical Forgiveness
22:42 Justice and Discipleship in Biblical Politics
23:32 Resources for Studying Scripture
24:43 The Value of Modern Translations
31:42 Challenges of Hebraic Thought in Modern Culture
36:27 Neoplatonism vs. Stoicism: Cultural Influences on Thought

What happens when an Australian butcher starts reading Leviticus—and finds it fun? In this unique episode, Dru Johnson speaks with Phil Bray, author of Leviticus on the Butcher’s Block, about how his day job cutting lambs and steaks helped him see the book of Leviticus in a whole new light. Phil traces his journey from casual Bible reader to Leviticus superfan, exploring how rituals, sacrifice, and atonement make far more sense when you’ve broken down hundreds of animals by hand.

Phil shares how ancient sacrificial rituals weren’t necessarily about violent death but about preparing food as a gift to God. The conversation dives into the Hebrew understanding of holiness, clean vs. unclean, and why God’s presence is depicted as a space without disease or death. Along the way, Phil and Dru reflect on Mary Douglas, Jewish slaughter laws, the power of smell and memory, and how the altar isn’t where the animal dies—but where it becomes holy.

Phil’s insights bring theology and meat science into one coherent (and hilarious) frame, showing why Leviticus is deeply spiritual, richly embodied, and more relevant than most Christians assume.

For Phil's YouTube Channel, go here:
https://www.youtube.com/@Leviticus_is_fun

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Chapters:
00:00 The Journey to Leviticus
03:19 Understanding Atonement and Sacrifice
06:19 The Butcher's Perspective on Rituals
09:15 Cultural Context of Sacrifice
12:32 The Nature of Death in Sacrifice
15:29 The Art of Kosher Slaughter
18:23 Leviticus: A Fun Exploration
21:27 The Meaning Beyond Death in Rituals
27:01 The Olfactory Experience of Worship
30:24 The Significance of Sacrifice in Ancient Cultures
34:07 Rethinking Atonement and Sacrifice
39:19 The Life of Jesus: More Than Just Death
45:06 Leviticus: A Guide to Drawing Near to God

In this episode, Old Testament scholar Dr. Carmen Imes unpacks widespread Christian misunderstandings of Torah and shows how the laws of the Old Testament were never meant as a means of salvation, but as a way of living out Israel’s covenant identity. Rather than a legalistic burden, Torah was a gift of freedom—a lifestyle for a people already redeemed.

Dr. Imes explains how Jesus wasn’t raising the bar beyond Sinai but calling his followers back to its original heart: internal transformation, not external compliance. Through examples like the command against coveting and teachings on oath-making, she demonstrates how the Torah shaped a moral imagination rooted in God’s character.

She also reveals the narrative logic of Israel’s law: it was given within a story of deliverance, not in abstraction. Laws were embedded in history, and many operated more like wisdom paradigms than court-enforceable codes. This narrative-law fusion is unique to Israel among ancient Near Eastern cultures.

With compelling insights into the Ten Commandments, patriarchal structures, and agricultural ethics like gleaning, Imes challenges modern Christians to reinterpret Torah as a resource for discipleship—not something to discard, but to embody. Torah becomes not a list of rules, but a lens for living justly in every generation.

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Chapters:

0:00 Why the Torah isn't what gave salvation to the Israelites
2:28 Why there are rules in the Bible
7:44 Oath-making in the Hebrew Bible
13:07 What the Ten Commandments were really like
17:23 The uniqueness of the Hebraic covenants and Old Testament laws
25:04 What it means to "love the LORD your God with all your heart"

ICYMI: This episode is one of our earliest episodes, and originally aired on 5/14/2020

 

In this introductory conversation, Dr. Jonathan Pennington joins the Center for Hebraic Thought as its newest fellow and shares how his journey through philosophy and biblical scholarship led him to see the New Testament as part of a deeply sophisticated intellectual tradition. Pennington discusses how early Christianity, though written in Greek and shaped within a Hellenistic world, did not abandon its Jewish roots but rather translated its robust metaphysic across cultural lines.

Drawing from his work on Jesus as a philosopher, Pennington explains that the New Testament doesn’t reject or capitulate to Greco-Roman philosophy—it stands alongside it, often outthinking and outlasting it. In contrast to Stoicism’s emotional detachment and denial of suffering’s reality, the Bible presents a profoundly realistic vision: a God who enters the world, values the body, and promises the restoration of creation through Shalom.

Pennington argues that Jesus—especially in Matthew’s Gospel—functions as a public philosopher. In moments like the Sermon on the Mount or debates with religious elites, Jesus offers strikingly rational, ethical, and metaphysical responses to life’s biggest questions.

This episode introduces not only a new CHT fellow, but a vision of Scripture as intellectually vibrant, emotionally honest, and endlessly translatable.

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What happens when the tech elite of Silicon Valley use their skills to serve the church?

In this episode, Kevin Kim, executive director of Crazy Love Ministries and founder of Basil Tech, joins Dr. Dru Johnson to explore a radical idea: that technology, creativity, and innovation can be spiritual gifts to build up the Body of Christ. Drawing from his experiences with venture capitalists, Stanford designers, and software engineers from Apple and Google, Kevin explains how Basil Tech mobilizes volunteers to serve ministries with world-class digital tools.

But this isn’t just about flashy apps or slick design. Kevin critiques the tech industry’s isolating, consumeristic culture—and shares how discipleship must involve “laying down your non-fungible gift” for the good of others. From reimagining the sermon to redesigning urban ministry in East Palo Alto, his work shows that thoughtful innovation, when grounded in Scripture and humility, can fuel mission and foster true community.

“We don’t make anything better—we’ve made things worse at Basil,” Kevin jokes, “but we try to help amazing people do amazing things.” This conversation invites listeners to rethink what tech can do—not as an idol, but as a tool in God’s hands.

Connect with Kevin Kim's Basil Tech here:

https://www.basiltech.org/

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Chapters:

00:00 Journey into Tech and Faith
02:44 Innovation in the Church
06:08 Understanding Innovation vs. Technology
08:56 Reimagining Ministry Practices
11:52 The Role of Technology in Modern Missions
15:00 Bazel Tech: Bridging Faith and Technology
17:55 Discipleship in the Tech World