CMO Confidential

This week on CMO Confidential, we're revisiting our conversation with Peri Hansen from July of 2025 - this is one of our favorites with topics just as relevant to marketers today.

Peri discusses why the CMO position is becoming the vanguard of innovation, the importance of an "agile learner" mindset, and why there's no substitute for great leadership. Key topics include: how nothing "returned to normal" after COVID; the importance of org design; and why CMO's should own the entire customer life cycle and help drive company strategy. Tune in to hear why references matter more than ever and the importance of building a personal brand.

Topics Covered:
• Why CMOs are being tapped to drive innovation and transformation
• The post-COVID shift in org design and what it means for marketing
• The importance of leadership, agility, and continuous learning
• Why great references still matter in the hiring process
• How CMOs can (and should) influence company-wide strategy

This episode is sponsored by Typeface - the agentic AI marketing platform that turns one idea into thousands of on-brand assets. Learn more: typeface.ai/cmo

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⏱️ Chapters

01:20 – Intro: The Evolving Role of the CMO
01:46 – Meet Peri Hansen: Korn Ferry CMO Practice Leader
02:39 – Why the CMO is Now the Vanguard of Innovation
05:53 – Three New Mandates for CMOs: Tech, Strategy & Lifecycle
07:05 – The CMO as a Change Agent and Team Builder
09:51 – Tech CMOs Are Leading—Who’s Catching Up?
12:25 – Building Tech Credibility as a Marketing Leader
14:18 – “Nothing Returned to Normal” After COVID
14:51 – Post-COVID Turnover: What CEOs and Boards Want Now
16:07 – What’s Replacing the Traditional CMO Role?
19:15 – Why Org Design Is a Top Priority in CMO Searches
20:58 – How Companies Realize They Need Org Restructuring
22:44 – The AI Era: Is There a Leadership Gap Forming?
24:14 – What Agile Leadership Actually Looks Like
25:51 – What Resumes Reveal: Pivot Points and Risk-Taking
27:21 – Why References Matter More Than Ever
29:09 – Final Advice: CMOs, Build Your Own Personal Brand
30:53 – Wrap Up & Where to Find More CMO Confidential Content

#CMOConfidential #PeriHansen @kornferryintl #ChiefMarketingOfficer #Leadership #OrgDesign #CustomerExperience #MarketingStrategy #PersonalBrand #ExecutiveSearch #CMOInsights
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A CMO Confidential Interview with Dave Penski, CEO of Connected Media, formerly CEO of Publicis Media, COO of Publicis Groupe, and CEO of ZenithOptimedia. Dave shares perspective on how clients are managing through a challenging marketplace, how there's increasing "disruption" between consumers and advertisers, and why the future of media is based on "connected identity." Key topics include: why Publicis continues to invest in tech; why 2027 will bring increased challenges for marketers; how different business verticals are impacted by "the economic K curve;" and why sports is "as AI proof as it gets." Tune in to hear why you should know your customer as precisely as possible across all media types and thoughts on the potential impacts of gambling and NIL (Name, Image and Likeness) on the golden goose of sports.

Dave Penski, CEO of Publicis Media (twice over) and former COO of Publicis Groupe, returns to CMO Confidential for a wide-ranging conversation with host Mike Linton on the forces reshaping marketing, media, and the agency business in 2026. Dave offers a rare economist's-eye view across verticals — from tariffs and consumer confidence to the K-economy, AI's real (and overhyped) impact on agencies, the in-housing cycle that never quite materialized as predicted, and why 2027 may be the toughest advertising year in recent memory.

Topics covered: connected identity, Publicis' $12B investment thesis, creative and engineering transformation via AI, streaming consolidation, the fragmentation of sports viewing, gambling regulation, and the one piece of career advice Dave still gives every mentee.

*This episode is brought to you by Scrunch . Learn more at scrunchai.com/cmo

🎙️ Host: Mike Linton — Former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance & Ancestry.com
👤 Guest: Dave Penske — CEO, Publicis Media

🔔 New episodes every Tuesday. Find our full catalog of 160+ episodes on YouTube, Spotify & Apple Podcasts.

## ⏱️ Chapter Markers

0:00 Welcome to CMO Confidential
0:23 Introducing Dave Penske & Today's Topic
1:13 State of the Business Marketplace: Volatility, Tariffs & Fragmentation
4:40 The Agency Landscape: Publicis vs. the Competition
5:23 Publicis' $12B Investment Strategy & Connected Media
7:42 What "Connected Identity" Actually Means
11:10 Forces on Agency Economics & Valuations
13:21 Why Agency Valuations Have Taken a Hit
16:48 The In-Housing Debate: 10 Years In, What's Really Happening
23:55 AI & Agencies: Creative, Production & Engineering Disruption
29:01 AI on the Buy Side: Faster Planning & Measurement
30:20 The Hollowing Out of the Middle Class & the K-Economy
34:00 2026 Marketplace Outlook: Midterms, Olympics Dollars & Risk
40:21 Streaming: Paramount/Warner Brothers & the New Big Six
42:37 Sports: AI-Proof, Must-See TV & the NIL Problem
44:45 The Fragmented Sports Viewing Experience
46:00 Gambling: Engagement Boost or Threat to the Game?
48:47 What CMOs Should Be Building Now for 2027
50:47 Closing Advice: The One Thing Dave Still Tells Every Mentee

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CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Dave Penske, Publicis Media, agency business, media industry 2026, connected identity, Epsilon, AI in advertising, AI and agencies, in-housing, media fragmentation, advertising marketplace, K-economy, middle class economy, streaming consolidation, Paramount Warner Brothers, sports advertising, sports gambling, NIL reform, agency valuations, Publicis Groupe, media planning, marketing leadership, CMO podcast, advertising trends, tariffs and advertising, media buying, retail media, influencer marketing, Sapient, AI creative production, upfront TV, Olympic advertising, World Cup advertising, midterm elections advertising, marketing strategy 2027, chief marketing officer
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A CMO Confidential Interview with Dave Penski, CEO of Connected Media, formerly CEO of Publicis Media, COO of Publicis Groupe, and CEO of ZenithOptimedia. Dave shares perspective on how clients are managing through a challenging marketplace, how there's increasing "disruption" between consumers and advertisers, and why the future of media is based on "connected identity." Key topics include: why Publicis continues to invest in tech; why 2027 will bring increased challenges for marketers; how different business verticals are impacted by "the economic K curve;" and why sports is "as AI proof as it gets." Tune in to hear why you should know your customer as precisely as possible across all media types and thoughts on the potential impacts of gambling and NIL (Name, Image and Likeness) on the golden goose of sports.

In this episode of CMO Confidential, host Mike Linton sits down with Dave Penski, two-time CEO of Publicis Media and former COO of Publicis Groupe, for a wide-ranging conversation on the forces reshaping media, agencies, and marketing strategy. Dave offers a ground-level view from one of the largest holding companies in the world — covering everything from the fragmented ad marketplace and AI's real-world impact, to the K-economy, streaming consolidation, sports gambling risk, and what CMOs should be building toward in 2027.
This episode covers:

Why the current ad marketplace is volatile — and which verticals are feeling it most
Publicis's $12B+ investment thesis around connected identity (Epsilon, Mars United, influencer)
The real story on agency insourcing: who wins, who loses, and what "outsourcing back out" looks like
Where AI is actually delivering — creative production, media planning speed, and Sapient's engineering work
The K-economy, hollowing out of the middle class, and what it means for advertising spend
Streaming consolidation: why the Paramount/Warner Bros. deal is a win for advertisers
Sports as the most AI-proof content — and why gambling regulation is a threat to the whole model
What CMOs should be investing in now to win in 2027

New episodes of CMO Confidential drop every Tuesday. Find our full catalog of 160+ episodes on Spotify, Apple, and YouTube.

TIMESTAMPED CHAPTER MARKERS
0:00 - Welcome to CMO Confidential
0:23 - Introducing Dave Penski, CEO of Publicis Media
1:13 - State of the Business Marketplace: Volatility, Tariffs & Fragmentation
4:40 - The Agency Landscape: Publicis vs. the Field
5:49 - Publicis's $12B Investment Strategy & Connected Media Vision
7:42 - What "Connected Identity" Actually Means (Epsilon, 255M IDs)
11:35 - Agency Valuations, Margins & Who's Growing vs. Who's Cutting
13:21 - The Insourcing Debate: In-House, Out-House & "Re-Housing"
23:55 - AI's Real Impact on Agencies: Creative, Engineering & Media Planning
30:20 - The K-Economy: Hollowing Out the Middle Class & Advertiser Confidence
35:04 - The 2026 Upfront Outlook: Olympics Dollars, Midterms & What's Next
40:01 - Streaming Consolidation: Paramount + Warner Bros. & the Six-Player Model
42:37 - Sports as AI-Proof Content & the Fragmented Viewing Problem
46:00 - Gambling: Bullish on Sports, Bearish on the Regulation Gap
48:47 - CMO Advice: What to Build Now for 2027 Success
50:47 - Final Advice: The Most Underrated Career Skill Is Still Punctuality

TAGS
CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Dave Penski, Publicis Media, Publicis Groupe, agency business, media agency, holding company, connected identity, Epsilon, AI in marketing, AI advertising, media fragmentation, programmatic advertising, insourcing, in-house agency, agency valuations, K-economy, middle class marketing, consumer confidence, advertising marketplace, streaming consolidation, Paramount Warner Bros, sports advertising, sports media, NIL, college sports gambling, sports betting regulation, upfront market, media planning, CMO strategy, marketing leadership, CMO podcast, marketing podcast, chief marketing officer, 2027 marketing strategy, media buying, agency economics, Sapient, creative production AI, marketing AI tools
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A CMO Confidential Interview with Megan Lally, the CEO and Co-Owner of Highdive, an agency which has created more than 10 Super Bowl ads. Megan explains why you shouldn't separate brand building from AI, the risk of optimization overwhelming strategy, and the importance of having partners tell you what you need to hear. Key discussion topics include: deciding whether your brand should or shouldn't be in the Super Bowl; why it's often challenging to have a good relationship with your agency; why brands should consider skipping the pitch process; and the reason you should ask your agency "Are you doing your best work for us?" Tune in to hear why you shouldn't care about "what everyone else is wearing to the party" when judging creative and case studies on Jeep, Lays and MSC Cruises.

What does your agency really want to tell you — but won't? Megan Lally, CEO and Co-owner of **High Dive**, pulls back the curtain on the client-agency relationship: why great creative gets killed before it starts, when the pitch process does more harm than good, and the two questions every CMO should be asking their agency right now.

Megan shares how AI is *saving* ideas rather than replacing them (the Jeep talking-animals campaign), why State Farm became the #1 consumer brand in 2025 by outperforming competitors who outspend them, what makes the Super Bowl worth it (and when it isn't), and why blending in with your competitors is the costliest marketing decision you can make.

This episode is hosted by Mike Linton — former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance, and Ancestry.com.

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🎙️ **This episode is sponsored by Scrunch** — the agent experience platform that helps your brand show up when consumers start with AI. Get a free website audit at **scrunch.com/cmo**

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Chapter Markers

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0:00 - Intro & Sponsor: Scrunch
1:24 - Meet Megan Lally, CEO of High Dive
2:16 - AI vs. Brand Building: Why It's a False Choice
5:04 - How AI Saved the Jeep Talking Animals Campaign
8:00 - Why Marketing Is Still Treated as a Cost, Not an Investment
9:17 - State Farm, Batman, and Measuring Breakthrough Creative
11:33 - Super Bowl Strategy: Who Should (and Shouldn't) Be There
13:32 - B2B Brands and the Super Bowl
15:00 - What Makes Great Agency-Client Relationships
16:22 - Why Radical Candor Is So Hard in Practice
18:27 - How to Deliver Hard Truths Without Blowing Up the Room
19:47 - Testing Chemistry During the Pitch Process
22:28 - Why Clients Should Skip the Traditional Pitch
24:33 - How Agency Search Consultants Can Help (or Hurt)
25:49 - One Thing to Do This Year to Improve Your Agency Relationship
26:37 - The "One Thing" Rule: The Lay's Super Bowl Example
28:17 - Final Advice: Two Questions to Ask Your Agency Now
30:27 - Funny Story: The Cheese That Won Jeep
32:03 - Closing & Show Recommendations
```

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Tags

CMO Confidential, Megan Lally, High Dive Agency, Mike Linton, Chief Marketing Officer, agency client relationship, creative agency, brand building, AI and marketing, Super Bowl advertising, Jeep campaign, State Farm marketing, Lays Super Bowl ad, independent creative agency, breakthrough creative, marketing strategy, CMO podcast, how to work with an agency, agency pitch process, radical candor marketing, B2B marketing, marketing ROI, brand investment, marketing leadership, performance marketing vs brand, Scrunch, agent experience platform`
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A CMO Confidential Interview with Richard Sanderson, the Marketing, Sales and Communications Practice Leader at Spencer Stuart. Richard's topline - Shorter Tenures, Brighter Futures - with tenure stable at 4.1 years, nearly 2/3 of CMO's moving for similar or better positions, an increase in promotions from within, and marketers under pressure to produce AI results. Key topics include: the challenge of developing a broad skill set in a market focused on specialization; why 2026 is the "show me the money year for AI;" and how marketers and search firms are adopting when there's "no obvious playbook." Tune in to hear why you should be prepared to explain how you use AI in your personal life.

What does the data actually say about CMO tenure, AI's impact on marketing teams, and whether your job is safe? Richard Sanderson, who leads the Marketing, Communications & Sales practice at Spencer Stuart, returns for his fifth appearance on CMO Confidential to break down two major studies: Spencer Stuart's 25-year CMO tenure survey and a new proprietary AI impact study of 100 CMOs.

The data may surprise you — and some of it should concern you.

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*This episode is brought to you by @ScrunchAI

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🎙️ Host: Mike Linton, former CMO of Best Buy, eBay, Farmers Insurance & Ancestry.com
👤 Guest: Richard Sanderson, Spencer Stuart – Marketing, Communications & Sales Practice Leader

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**CHAPTERS:**

0:00 – Introduction & Richard Sanderson Background
1:07 – Two Studies: CMO Tenure & AI Impact
3:00 – CMO Tenure Overview: Shorter Tenures, Brighter Futures
4:38 – Average CMO Tenure vs. The C-Suite
5:55 – Where CMOs Go After They Leave
6:36 – The CMO-Plus Role: CRO, CCO & Evolving Titles
9:00 – Insider vs. Outsider Hiring & Succession Planning
12:28 – AI Study: Marketers See 2026 as Make-or-Break
13:18 – Headcount Cuts: Past vs. What's Coming
14:20 – Efficiency Targets at the Largest Companies
16:21 – CMOs in the Messy Middle
17:18 – Where Teams Stand on the AI Adoption Journey
18:29 – Who's Leading AI Strategy Inside Companies
20:25 – Impact on Career Development & Future Marketing Leaders
21:30 – How Job Descriptions Are Being Rewritten for AI
23:32 – No Playbook: Learning as You Go
24:14 – Brand Trust & the Risks of AI-First Advertising
26:00 – Takeaways: What to Do Now
28:01 – Ostriches vs. Wolves — Which One Are You?
29:46 – Practical Advice: Treating AI Agents Like New Hires

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**TAGS:**

CMO Confidential, Mike Linton, Richard Sanderson, Spencer Stuart, CMO tenure, chief marketing officer, CMO survey, AI and marketing, marketing leadership, AI impact on jobs, marketing jobs 2026, CMO career, B2B marketing, marketing strategy, AI agents, marketing teams, headcount reduction, marketing executive, C-suite leadership, AI adoption, brand trust, marketing talent, CMO role evolution, chief revenue officer, chief customer officer, marketing podcast, AI in the workplace, marketing 2026, executive leadership, Spencer Stuart CMO survey
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