CMO Confidential

A CMO Confidential Interview with Pete Imwalla, former CEO of RPA and 4A's board member. Pete shares his take on how many tech changes resulted in additional agency headcount, how AI is rapidly reversing that trend, and why many agency valuations have dropped significantly over the last 5 years. Key topics include: why brand building is like infrastructure; how Publicis is bucking the trend; how to think about "in-housing;" and why Paul Roetzer's CMO 2023 CMO Confidential show was prescient. Tune in to hear about the "2nd mover advantage" and why he hates the concept of "future proofing."

Agency economics are getting rewritten in the age of AI. Mike Linton sits down with Pete Imwalle 32-year RPA veteran and former CEO to dissect what’s changing—and what leaders should do about it. They cover the shift from reach to relevance, why FTE-based fees are misaligned in an AI world, how to separate automation from actual advantage, and where in-housing does and doesn’t work. Along the way: the sustained business impact of the Farmers “We know a thing or two…” campaign, the rise of agentic workflows, and why “future-proofing” starts with culture, not clairvoyance.

Chapters
00:00:00 – Cold open + show setup
00:00:22 – Mike’s intro, Pete’s background, and today’s topic
00:01:18 – Farmers campaign wins Sustained Effie) and effectiveness creativity
00:02:18 – 30 years of change: from Prodigy/AOL/CompuServe to Netscape and the open web
00:03:24 – Google + broadband: when digital finally changed consumer behavior
00:04:33 – Mobile’s second wave and the trap of “mobile-first/AI-first” strategies
00:06:01 – How agencies adapted: leadership, curiosity, and tolerance for experimentation
00:07:42 – Investing ahead of revenue: offense + defense in capability building
00:08:22 – Reach fragmentation: from “40% on Cheers” to only the Super Bowl
00:09:18 – The real squeeze: boards treating advertising as expense, not investment
00:10:13 – Short-termism, PE/VC incentives, and brand vs. performance
00:12:21 – “Adapt or die”: AI as an extinction event? (hat tip: Paul Roetzer)
00:13:28 – Agentic workflows: shrinking grunt work (esp. media & strategy ops)
00:16:00 – Client asks: “give me savings, don’t risk my IP”
00:16:36 – Why FTE pricing disincentivizes efficiency; pay for outcomes instead
00:17:51 – Three futures: AI-native, AI-emergent, or obsolete
00:21:39 – Holding-company moves; why Publicis is outpacing peers
00:22:00 – Agency valuations: ~40% decline over five years; second-mover advantage in AI
00:26:37 – In-housing: when it works, when it backfires, and true cost to own
00:28:48 – Build vs. buy: amortization, maintenance, and staying current
00:30:16 – The Geico lesson: investing through the curve until returns flatten
00:31:22 – What to test by EOY 2026: culture, change management, and low-hanging automation
00:34:02 – Ditch “future-proofing”; hire for curiosity and adaptability
00:35:35 – Wrap + where to find more CMO Confidential

Tags
CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,Pete Imwalle,RPA,agency economics,advertising,marketing leadership,AI in marketing,agentic workflows,media planning,marketing strategy,brand vs performance,FTE pricing,procurement,in-housing,holding companies,Publicis,Omnicom,Super Bowl ads,Effie Awards,Farmers Insurance campaign,Geico case study,change management,digital transformation,marketing AI,MarTech,measurement,short term vs long term,CMO,CEO,CFO,board governance
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A CMO Confidential Interview with James Shira, Principal, Global and US CIO and Global CISO at PwC. James details how @PwC is running an "AI marketplace" within the company which features a number of models, his focus on scale, security, and user experience, and the case for approaching AI with a "humility" mindset. Key topics include: how the CISO (Chief Information Security Officer) balances rapid enablement and security needs; why CMO's should have a working knowledge of the technology roadmap; and tips for aligning with your CIO. Tune in to hear how to "go rogue" if you must and a story about socks.

Sponsored by Scrunch AI: learn more here → https://www.scrunchai.com/cmo

Global CIO & CISO James Shira joins Mike to decode what your CIO wishes you knew—AI adoption, security trade-offs, model “marketplaces,” and how CMOs should really partner with IT. Concrete guidance on prioritization, tech stack decisions, legacy constraints, and when “going rogue” is justified. Practical, senior-level playbook for winning with AI without lighting money—or trust—on fire.

**Chapters**
00:00 – Welcome & setup: “What your CIO wants to tell you, but won’t”
01:15 – The AI era: pace, complexity, stakeholder pressure
03:24 – Humility first: why being late to AI isn’t OK
04:09 – Designing for scale, security, and real user adoption at PwC
06:00 – Building a model “marketplace” (40+ models) & minimum bars
07:27 – Guardrails: encryption, data governance, and safe experimentation
09:32 – Adoption reality: super-users, skeptics, and moving the middle
11:00 – What “leading” looks like: C-suite prioritization & high-value use cases
13:00 – CISO shift: from gatekeeper to enabler; managing Kobayashi-Maru choices
16:59 – How marketers help: anticipate CIO/CISO problems, simplify choices
19:00 – MarTech the smart way: align to architecture, reduce sprawl, bring options
22:00 – No IT dance partner? Work with COO/CFO; standardize and choose fit over “sexy”
24:33 – Legacy estates: outsource vs. “AI-ify” retained work; show ROI math
26:29 – When to go rogue—and how not to get fired doing it
31:00 – Free advice to agencies: do the work, bring substance, not spam
32:00 – Closing & funniest story (Zurich board-meeting socks)

CMO Confidential,Mike Linton,James Shira,PwC,CIO,CISO,AI,GenAI,AI adoption,AI governance,cybersecurity,enterprise IT,MarTech,marketing technology,tech stack,cloud strategy,data governance,model marketplace,digital transformation,change management,prioritization,COO,CFO,CapEx,legacy modernization,outsourcing,automation,meeting summaries,audit,experimentation,go rogue,executive leadership,marketing strategy,enterprise software,boardroom,CMO tips
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A CMO Confidential Interview with Rob Ward, co-founder and General Partner of Meritech Capital, a top Silicon Valley venture firm. Rob shares his take on what he calls a "super terrifying and exciting time" and provides perspective on AI receiving the most capital of any technology in history, the "durability of revenue" and how quickly start-ups are now reaching $100 million in revenue. Key topics include: why VC's focus on growth vs. profitability; the risks associated with massive long-term capital investment; why marketers should pick a "trusted advisor" as their AI partner; and why your data strategy needs "context. Tune in to hear how Astronomer handled the "Coldplay Concert Incident" which immediately became a PR classic and the "VC Foie Gras Effect."

What happens when a top venture capitalist pulls back the curtain on AI, valuations, hype cycles, and what’s actually working?

In this episode of CMO Confidential, host Mike Linton sits down with Rob Ward, Co-Founder and General Partner at Metech Capital, to unpack the realities behind the AI boom. Rob has spent more than 26 years investing in category-defining companies like Facebook (Meta), Snowflake, NetSuite, Zipcar, and Cloudera — and he brings a rare, grounded perspective to today’s AI frenzy.

Together, they explore:
• Why AI adoption is still early — despite explosive growth
• The real risks behind inflated valuations and “AI-washing”
• How VC decision-making changes during platform shifts
• What marketers and executives should actually look for when choosing AI partners
• Why data strategy, change management, and trust matter more than tools
• What layoffs, productivity, and the future of work really look like beneath the headlines
• A masterclass in crisis communications, featuring Ryan Reynolds, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Coldplay

If you’re a CMO, CEO, board member, founder, or agency leader trying to make sense of AI without getting swept up in the hype — this is a must-listen conversation.

New episodes of CMO Confidential drop every Tuesday.
Subscribe for insider perspectives on the most misunderstood role in the C-suite.



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Chapter Markers

00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential
00:19 – Introducing Rob Ward and today’s AI conversation
01:13 – Where we really are in AI adoption
02:26 – Explosive AI growth: what’s real vs hype
03:35 – Why enterprise AI adoption is still a slog
04:37 – Vendor spend, hyperscalers, and the trillion-dollar buildout
06:12 – Is this an AI bubble? Public vs private market realities
07:20 – Accelerating investment rounds and lack of diligence
08:12 – AI-washing and durability of AI businesses
09:46 – Proof-of-concepts, switching costs, and fragile loyalty
10:55 – Big Tech vs startups: why this cycle is different
11:40 – Why VCs chase platform shifts despite the risks
13:05 – How AI is changing profitability and headcount math
16:11 – “FOGRA” investing and capital distortion
17:00 – Circular investing and data-center risk
18:23 – Data centers, GPUs, and betting on the wrong future
19:38 – Credit default swaps and financial warning signs
21:45 – How executives should choose AI vendors
22:58 – Change management and why culture matters most
24:09 – Why data strategy is the real AI strategy
26:36 – “Frequently wrong, never in doubt” and AI hallucinations
27:01 – Practical AI use cases for marketers
30:00 – Layoffs, productivity, and what’s really happening to jobs
33:05 – The best questions to spot real AI fluency
35:00 – AI safety, geopolitics, and long-term risks
36:38 – Crisis management masterclass: Astronomer, Coldplay & Ryan Reynolds
39:58 – Final advice and closing thoughts

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Comma-Separated Tags

CMO Confidential, AI strategy, artificial intelligence, venture capital, Rob Ward, Metech Capital, AI adoption, AI hype, AI bubble, enterprise AI, generative AI, AI in marketing, CMO leadership, marketing leadership, venture investing, AI vendors, data strategy, change management, AI readiness, tech valuations, AI infrastructure, data centers, future of work, AI layoffs, crisis communications, brand crisis management, Ryan Reynolds marketing, Gwyneth Paltrow Astronomer, Coldplay controversy, Silicon Valley, marketing podcast, C-suite leadership
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"Dissecting Compensation - A Primer on Understanding, Negotiating and Managing Pay"
A CMO Confidential Interview with Richard Sanderson, the Marketing, Sales, and Communications Practice Leader at Spencer Stuart. Richard starts with the basics of salary, bonus and equity and branches out to compensation mix, the various types of equity, negotiating best practices, and the "other" elements of an offer. Key topics include: why the devil is in the details; when and how to discuss compensation; the difference between dumb luck and bad luck; and why everyone should do a "multi-year cash flow analysis." Tune in to hear why you should always read the proxy statement and the importance of being prepared to explain how you are using AI.

*Dissecting CMO Compensation with Richard Sanderson (Spencer Stuart) — Salary, Bonus, Equity & Negotiation Playbook*

What’s “market” for a modern CMO, and how do you actually negotiate it? Richard Sanderson, who leads Spencer Stuart’s Marketing, Communications & Sales Practice, breaks down the three pillars of pay (salary, bonus, equity), compensation mix by ownership model, and the real rules of negotiating offers, severance, and forfeitures. We also tackle vesting, RSUs vs. options vs. PSUs, what to ask recruiters (legally) about pay ranges, how to manage your team when equity is underwater, and why every CMO needs crisp AI impact stories in interviews. Actionable, candid, and built for executives who make or take offers.

*Chapters*
00:00 Intro — Welcome to CMO Confidential & Richard’s background
01:50 Why comp is hard to decode (and why it matters)
02:12 The building blocks: salary, bonus, equity
03:21 The data gap: only ~4% of F1000 list marketing leaders as NEOs
04:26 Salary basics, bands, and industry norms
05:35 Bonus mechanics & the one question to ask (3-year payout history)
06:38 Equity 101 — long-term incentives and where value really accrues
07:25 Compensation mix: public, PE, private, nonprofit
08:25 Geography effect — US vs. Europe on equity weighting
09:23 RSUs explained (and why they always have some value)
10:19 Options & strike prices — upside vs. “underwater” risk
10:57 PSUs — performance gates, accelerators, and board metrics
12:17 Vesting types: time, performance, and event-based triggers
13:15 Forfeitures if you leave early (and what’s negotiable)
15:09 Negotiating framework — timing, laws, posture
16:34 When to talk comp without signaling “it’s just the money”
17:58 Pay transparency laws — expectations vs. history; what recruiters can ask
20:23 Forfeitures checklist: bonus timing, unvested equity, make-wholes
21:36 Know your company’s rules (eligibility dates, presence requirements)
22:36 Smart pushback: asking for the range and reducing info asymmetry
23:47 Your moment of max leverage: the verbal offer
27:58 Beyond pay: severance, sign-on, relocation, start date, perks
29:00 CMO tenure math and why severance matters
32:31 “Am I underpaid?” How to build a real case
34:34 Managing your team through pay angst & proxy transparency
36:29 Underwater equity — empathy, vision, and refresh cycles
38:22 Timing luck: annual grants & market swings (“Liberation Day” example)
40:00 Do the 5-year cash-flow comparison (and bridge Year 1–2)
42:04 The new relocation math (mortgages & cost deltas)
43:06 Titles, reporting lines, non-competes, and day-one docs
43:50 Should you ever turn down a written offer?
45:23 The reputational risk of reneging
47:05 Be ready: the AI question in every CMO interview
48:32 Wrap

*Tags*
CMO Confidential, Richard Sanderson, Spencer Stuart, CMO compensation, executive pay, salary bands, bonus plans, equity RSUs, stock options, PSUs, vesting, severance, negotiation, forfeitures, compensation mix, private equity, public companies, proxy statements, pay transparency laws, marketing leadership, executive recruiting, board compensation, make-whole bonus, cash flow analysis, AI in marketing
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"Marketing at Meta - The View From the Eye of the Storm"
A CMO Confidential Interview with Alex Schultz, the Meta CMO and VP of Analytics, and author of Click Here: The Art & Science of Digital Marketing and Advertising. Alex details why he believes in decentralized analytics and the importance of focusing on core results vs vanity metrics, why AI is a "threshold technology", and why and how the company transitioned to Meta. Key topics include: the barbell distribution of AI competency (native users and very senior experienced leaders); why he believes so strongly in "incrementality measurements"; how he and his team handle the emotional impact of being in the center of political discussions and; why marketers should be thinking about 2027. Tune in to hear a story about affiliate marketing incentives gone wrong and the eBay/Google "Tea Party" incident.

What’s it really like to be CMO at one of the most scrutinized companies in the world?

In this episode of **CMO Confidential**, host Mike Linton sits down with **Alex Schultz**, CMO and VP of Analytics at Meta, for a wide-ranging, unfiltered conversation on marketing leadership inside the eye of the storm. Alex breaks down how Meta structures marketing and analytics at global scale, why marketing must be centralized while analytics should not, and what most companies get wrong about “one source of truth.”

The conversation goes deep on navigating nonstop political and cultural pressure, shortening negative news cycles, and keeping teams emotionally grounded when the brand is under fire. Alex also shares some of the clearest executive thinking we’ve heard on AI as a *threshold technology* — where it truly creates leverage, where humans must stay in the loop, and how CMOs should assess AI talent today.

The episode closes with inside stories from the Facebook-to-Meta rebrand, hard-earned lessons from eBay on incrementality measurement, and practical advice for preparing your organization for 2027 and beyond.

If you’re a CMO, CEO, founder, or senior operator responsible for growth, measurement, and brand under pressure — this is required listening.

New episodes of **CMO Confidential** drop every Tuesday.

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## Chapters & Timestamps

00:00 – Welcome to CMO Confidential
00:01 – Alex Schultz’s role: CMO & VP of Analytics at Meta
00:03 – Why marketing is centralized but analytics are decentralized
00:06 – “One source of truth” and killing vanity metrics
00:09 – Marketing while constantly in the global spotlight
00:11 – Managing crisis cycles, truth, and comms alignment
00:12 – AI’s real impact on marketing productivity
00:15 – AI as a threshold technology (precision vs. recall)
00:17 – How AI is reshaping analytics, creative, and teams
00:18 – Hiring for AI: the barbell talent distribution
00:22 – Preparing for 2027: information flow and AI philosophy
00:25 – How B2B marketing is (and isn’t) changing
00:28 – Inside the Facebook → Meta rebrand
00:32 – Lessons from eBay: incrementality over last-click
00:36 – What downturns reveal about leadership talent
00:37 – Why Alex wrote his book on digital marketing
00:40 – Affiliate marketing, incentives, and unintended consequences
00:43 – Final advice for CMOs and marketers

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CMO Confidential, Alex Schultz, Meta marketing, Facebook Meta rebrand, marketing leadership, CMO podcast, executive marketing, analytics strategy, marketing analytics, AI in marketing, artificial intelligence marketing, incrementality measurement, digital marketing strategy, B2B marketing, growth marketing, brand under pressure, crisis communications, marketing measurement, performance marketing, last click attribution, marketing org design, marketing podcast

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