Out and Back

David Roche -- ultra marathoner, elite running coach, and what Rory's calling the godfather of the high carb revolution -- joins the Out and Back for episode 40. He started as a running back at Columbia, spent years coaching before ever being competitive himself, and broke the Leadville 100 course record in 2024 (and again in 2025!) largely by stress-testing the same principles he'd been building with his athletes. The conversation covers a lot of ground: how he thinks about carb intake across different race distances, why he separates hydration from fueling, the case for uphill treadmill threshold work, what unites his coaching across trail, road, and ultra, and why he keeps looking to cycling for answers the running world is slow to ask.
David on Instagram
David's Website
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠
goodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order.
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK⁠
Kava Haven: All the Buzz, None of the Booze — get 15% off your first order at ⁠http://kavahaven.com/outandback⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK15 
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Olympian John Gay, host of the Shakeout Podcast, joins Jacob and Rory one week out from the Ottawa Marathon where John ran 2:14 in his debut and Rory ran 2:09 for third place to close out his spring season. They break down both races, talk conditions, pacing strategy gone wrong, a certain Prime Minister phone call, and a lot more. Also on the docket: the Bolder Boulder DQ situation, Parker Valby's return at Track Fest, Kipchoge's continental tour, the new World Athletics qualifying standards, and the US World Half Marathon team announcement.
Stay connected with John:
The Shakeout Podcast
John on Instagram
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at ⁠https://www.meteopace.com/redeem⁠ Code: OUTANDBACK ⁠https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK

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Timestamps
0:00 -- Intro
2:00 -- Ottawa recap, John's debut
8:00 -- Race conditions and why times were slower
14:00 -- Rory's race and the Mark Carney moment
21:00 -- The Prime Minister phone call, play by play
27:00 -- Bolder Boulder: Emad Bashir Mohammed DQ'd
33:00 -- Should Bolder Boulder open the pro field?
38:00 -- Cape Town Marathon and Kipchoge's continental tour
43:00 -- Should the World Marathon Majors expand?
48:00 -- World Athletics qualifying standards
54:00 -- Marathon pacing strategy (and a Chicago horror story)
58:00 -- Parker Valby at Track Fest, Habtom Samuel's NCAA record
1:09:00 -- Connor Mantz named to US World Half team
1:12:00 -- US Women's World Half team situation explained
1:14:00 -- Closing, hats shipped, coaching links

Blue Collar Middle America Hero Vincent Mauri joins the Out & Back podcast from his woodworking shop after working a full days shift at the local running store. We know he's been on about every podcast out there at this point but we got him to tell some new stories and also discuss his future training and racing plans, hiring an agent, and trying to land a shoe deal

goodr: Upgrade your eyewear by heading to goodr.com/OUTANDBACK to claim $10 off your first order.
Meteo Pace: Be prepared for race day by getting 20% off MeteoPace Pro at https://www.meteopace.com/redeem Code: OUTANDBACK https://app.meteopace.com/redeem?code=OUTANDBACK
Kava Haven: All the Buzz, None of the Booze — get 15% off your first order at http://kavahaven.com/outandback Code: OUTANDBACK15 
ZBiotics: Learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use OUTANDBACK at zbiotics.com/OUTANDBACK

Vinny's Strava

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Olympic marathon medalist turned trail runner, Molly Seidel, talks about her path from the roads to the trails. From the pavement to trail races to the high-altitude training that supports her quest for Western States, she shares behind-the-scenes insights you won’t hear anywhere else.
Perfect for marathoners curious about trail running, road runners exploring ultra distances, or endurance athletes seeking fresh perspective—this episode opens a window into the future of multi-disciplinary excellence.

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How to taper for a marathon, How to recover after a marathon & much more, on The Shakeout Podcast with John Gay ahead of his marathon debut.

Kava Haven: All the Buzz, None of the Booze — get 15% off your first order at http://kavahaven.com/outandback
Code: OUTANDBACK15

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Join our newsletter
⁠Join our Strava group⁠
Follow us:
Jacob’s YouTube
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Out And Back YouTube
⁠Rory’s Strava⁠
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⁠Rory’s Instagram⁠
⁠Jacob’s Instagram⁠
Jacob’s Coaching Website
SandyBoy Productions