Unchained

Debanked 12 times. Walked through an airport in handcuffs. Every charge eventually gone. Nader Al-Naji on the defense strategy that convinced both agencies to back off.

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In July 2024, Nader Al-Naji was preparing to board a flight to Turkey when the FBI arrested him in front of with his wife and son and walked him in handcuffs through the airport. 

The DOJ and SEC had jointly charged the DESO and BitClout founder with defrauding investors of $3 million and running an unregistered securities offering. Twenty months later, both cases are gone: the DOJ dismissed in March 2025, the SEC dismissed with prejudice — meaning it can’t be refiled — in March 2026. 

Nader tells Laura what actually happened, from the FBI raid on his Beverly Hills home and the clerical error that sent him to federal prison for a weekend, to the legal strategy that convinced both agencies to back off. He also revisits the BitClout celebrity era, the long call with Do Kwon before Terra launched, and the debanking tactic he calls ‘subpoena sniping.’

Host:


⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nader Al-Naji (@nadertheory), Founder of DESO and BitClout

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A Bitcoin developer just proposed freezing wallets that don't upgrade for quantum resistance. Including Satoshi's.

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Nexo

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A Bitcoin developer just proposed the unthinkable: freeze every wallet that does not upgrade for quantum resistance, including Satoshi's. 

Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan are here to reckon with BIP-361, the quantum threat to early Bitcoin addresses, and what it means that this proposal exists at all. They also work through who actually wrote Bitcoin — Hal Finney, Adam Back, and Dave Kleiman — and a trail that runs through the Epstein files. 

Plus: Justin Sun's frozen World Liberty Financial tokens expose why token holders have no legal rights, EtherFi's exit from Scroll turns into a live platform risk case study, and Circle's decision not to freeze known stolen USDC raises the question of what stablecoin issuers owe to the ecosystem.

Hosts:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Founder of Infinex and Synthetix


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Security Expert

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Can a private company be trusted to decide which 40 firms get access to the world’s most dangerous AI model? And separately — is the SEC’s new Reg Crypto finally the framework the industry has been waiting for since 2020?

Thanks to our sponsors!

*⁠ As Bitcoin's application layer, Citrea gives you access to the first trust-minimized BTC on a fully programmable platform and a native stablecoin for Bitcoin, ctUSD. 

You can now participate in Bitcoin capital markets with lending, privacy, payments, Bitcoin yield, trading and predictions. You get expanded Bitcoin utility without sacrificing its security. 

Citrea mainnet is live. Put your BTC to work at citrea.xyz/unchained. 

*⁠ Ether.fi is giving Unchained listeners 15% cashback on food and ride apps — and that's on top of the 3% you get on everything else. 

Your bank is charging you to use your own money. Laura switched and loves her card!

Go to ether.fi/unchained to claim your offer.

The week StarkWare’s chief product officer published a paper proposing a quantum-resistant mechanism for Bitcoin that doesn’t require changing Bitcoin’s code. The crew discuss the the threat quantum computers pose to bitcoin, which raises philosophical questions about what it means to “own” bitcoin. “Not your keys, not your coins” has long been the catchphrase — so what happens if a quantum computer wrests your keys away fro you?

Plus they discuss the fact that Anthropic decided not to release its most powerful model to the public at the same time its technology is being removed from the government. What does it mean when a private company has greater capability than the U.S. government?  

Also, the SEC’s Division of Trading and Markets quietly released major guidance clarifying when DeFi front ends need to register as broker-dealers — and Chair Atkins announced what could become the first actual crypto rulemaking in the agency’s history. 

Katherine, Jessi, and TuongVy work through what each of these developments means for builders, lawyers, and founders navigating crypto right now — and why the question of who gets to make these calls is the same whether you’re talking about AI or regulation.

Hosts:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠, General Counsel at StarkWare. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TuongVy Le⁠⁠, General Counsel at Veda

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The US Naval blockade is live, markets are holding, and Ram thinks the bottom is in. Austin and Chris are not so sure.

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Thank you to our sponsors:

Citrea 

As Bitcoin's application layer, Citrea gives you access to the first trust-minimized BTC on a fully programmable platform and a native stablecoin for Bitcoin, ctUSD. 

You can now participate in Bitcoin capital markets with lending, privacy, payments, Bitcoin yield, trading and predictions. You get expanded Bitcoin utility without sacrificing its security. 

Citrea mainnet is live. Put your BTC to work at citrea.xyz/unchained.  

Etherfi

Ether.fi is giving Unchained listeners 15% cashback on food and ride apps — and that's on top of the 3% you get on everything else. 

Your bank is charging you to use your own money. Laura switched and loves her card!

Go to ether.fi/unchained to claim your offer.

Nexo

Nexo is a premier digital wealth platform offering:

● crypto yield up to 15% (based on stated annual interest rates)

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The day the US Naval blockade of the Strait of Hormuz went live, peace talks had just collapsed in Islamabad and markets were holding. Ram, Austin, and Chris work through the tactical logic behind CENTCOM’s move, why regional powers are standing down, and how long Iran can sustain the economic pressure. 

Then: Anthropic previewed a model called Mythos, cybersecurity stocks fell, and the question of whether AI security risk is real or manufactured now has real money behind it. 

Meanwhile, World Liberty Financial borrowed $75 million against its own governance token on a platform co-founded by its own advisor, Justin Sun is accusing the team of treating investors as a personal ATM, and the stablecoin bill clock is ticking. 

Which sectors are most dislocated? What would it take to bring the next wave of investors into crypto? And is this actually a market bottom?

Hosts:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Austin Campbell⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host of Bits + Bips, Zero Knowledge Consulting


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ram Ahluwalia⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Co-Host, CEO of Lumida


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Chris Perkins⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Co-Host, CEO of 250 Digital Asset Management

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The basis trade paid 15–30% near risk-free for years. Options couldn't compete. Then 10/10 happened.

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As Bitcoin's application layer, Citrea gives you access to the first trust-minimized BTC on a fully programmable platform and a native stablecoin for Bitcoin, ctUSD.

You can now participate in Bitcoin capital markets with lending, privacy, payments, Bitcoin yield, trading and predictions. You get expanded Bitcoin utility without sacrificing its security.

Citrea mainnet is live. Put your BTC to work at citrea.xyz/unchained.  

Ether.fi is giving Unchained listeners 15% cashback on food and ride apps — and that's on top of the 3% you get on everything else. 

Your bank is charging you to use your own money. Laura switched and loves her card!

Go to ether.fi/unchained to claim your offer.

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For years, the basis trade and token-launch points farming crowded out options as a yield tool in crypto — not because options were inferior, but because the alternatives were simply too easy and too lucrative. 

That changed on 10/10. With the basis trade effectively dead and altcoin valuations cratered, a window has opened for onchain options to compete for capital in a way they never could before. 

Nick Forster, CEO of Derive (formerly Lyra), has been building toward this moment for five years. He joins LTR, venture investor at Cosmos, who has tracked the full graveyard of failed options DEXes — Opyn, HEGIC, Ribbon, Dopex, Strike — and still believes this time is different. The question isn't whether crypto options will scale. It's whether the infrastructure is finally ready.

Host:


⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nick Forster, CEO and Founder, Derive


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LTR, Venture Investor, Kosmos

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