The Ground Up Podcast

What happens when two Horseshoe Hell veterans sit down with the podcast legends Ryan Devlin & Chris Kalous and try to explain what they've gotten themselves into?

For this special rebroadcast, we joined Ryan on the Struggle Climbing Show and his Hell partner Chris (host of The Enormocast) for a crash course in all things 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell—the legendary Arkansas climbing event where teams spend 12, 24, or even 36 hours climbing as many routes as they can.

We break down the basics of Hell, from how the event works and how to qualify, to the biggest mistakes first-timers make and the tactics that can save your skin, energy, and sanity when the clock keeps ticking. We also get into the questions everyone has before their first Hell: Why aren't there more injuries? What does it actually take to survive 24 hours? And, perhaps most importantly, how do you choose the right costume?

Whether you're thinking about signing up for Horseshoe Hell, curious what makes the event so uniquely chaotic, or just want to hear four climbers convince themselves that climbing through the night is a good idea, this episode is your crash course in Hell.

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A huge thank you to our sponsor, Misty Mountain, for supporting The Ground Up Podcast. Since 1985, Misty Mountain has been handcrafting climbing harnesses and equipment in North Carolina, building gear that's trusted by climbers no matter the challenge.

As a listener of The Ground Up Podcast, you can save 15% on harnesses, gear, and apparel with the code GROUNDUP at checkout.

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Follow Ryan & The Struggle on Instagram: @thestruggleclimbingshow

Follow Chris & The Enormocast on Instagram: @enormocast

Check out the Struggle Climbing Show

Check out the Enormocast

Get prepped for 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell with our previous Hell guests

The Goatbuster: Vasya Vorotnikov and Rob D'Anastasio

Genevive Walker

Leather & Lace: Dick & Natalie Dower

Nadya Vorotnikova & Sean Vallefuoco

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Get access to exclusive and ad-free content by becoming a Patreon 

Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

Check out our new website: https://www.thegrounduppodcast.com/

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Eric Zschiesche is one of the true pioneers of American bouldering. From establishing some of the Piedmont's most iconic boulder problems and traditional routes to developing classics at Devil's Lake, Eric's influence stretches far beyond the guidebooks. Long before crash pads and social media, he was climbing bold highballs, pushing into 5.13—often barefoot—and building a legacy that continues to inspire generations of climbers.

In this episode, we trace Eric's journey from scrambling around the cliffs of North Carolina's Moore's Wall as a teenager to dirtbagging across the American West in pursuit of Yosemite's biggest walls. He shares stories of discovering technical climbing, finding inspiration beneath Midnight Lightning, surviving epics on El Capitan, and why bouldering has always remained at the heart of his climbing philosophy.

Along the way, we dive into the evolution of climbing from the 1970s to today, the ethics and mindset behind bold ascents, the unique quartzite cliffs of North Carolina, and what it was like establishing difficult highballs without the safety net of modern crash pads. Eric also opens up about the "widow maker" heart attack that nearly ended his life—and how showing up to the climbing gym that day ultimately saved it. Now in his 60s and still climbing double-digit boulders, Eric reflects on the joy of lifelong movement, curiosity, and why the simplest act of climbing on rock has never stopped captivating him.

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A huge thank you to our sponsor, Misty Mountain, for supporting The Ground Up Podcast. Since 1985, Misty Mountain has been handcrafting climbing harnesses and equipment in North Carolina, building gear that's trusted by climbers no matter the challenge.

As a listener of The Ground Up Podcast, you can save 15% on harnesses, gear, and apparel with the code GROUNDUP at checkout.

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Follow the Eric on Instagram: @ericzschiesche00

Check out Eri's YouTube Channel @ericzschiesche

Head on over to Eric's website to see some his artrwork

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Get access to exclusive and ad-free content by becoming a Patreon 

Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

Check out our new website: https://www.thegrounduppodcast.com/

Sign up for the Mailing List!

Snake Dike has become one of the most talked-about routes in climbing after a controversial retro-bolting effort—and the equally controversial decision to chop those bolts. So we brought friend of the pod, Trevor Jones, on to debate one of the biggest questions in climbing today: should classic routes ever be changed?

The three of us come at the topic from very different perspectives as we discuss retro-bolting ethics, preserving climbing history, adventure, risk, and who gets the final say when it comes to an iconic route.

We also tackle another climbing ethics question: if you fall onto a ledge but never weight the rope, did you actually send the climb? Finally, we wrap things up by talking about Janja Garnbret's incredible ascent of Bibliographie and whether she's already the greatest all-around female rock climber of all time.

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A huge thank you to our sponsor, Misty Mountain, for supporting The Ground Up Podcast. Since 1985, Misty Mountain has been handcrafting climbing harnesses and equipment in North Carolina, building gear that's trusted by climbers no matter the challenge.

As a listener of The Ground Up Podcast, you can save 15% on harnesses, gear, and apparel with the code GROUNDUP at checkout.

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Read about the recent retro-bolting of Snake Dike

Check out the Climbing Magazine article about why the bolts were chopped

Hear John Long's take on this classic debate

Read about the infamous 2024 accident on Snake Dike

Peruse the borderline obnoxious Mountain Project thread on the topic

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Get access to exclusive and ad-free content by becoming a Patreon 

Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

Check out our new website: https://www.thegrounduppodcast.com/

Sign up for the Mailing List!

John Alcorn has quietly become one of Colorado's strongest and speediest alpine climbers. Best known for his record-setting ascent of the Casual Route on Longs Peak's Diamond, John's journey wasn't built on chasing speed from the beginning—it started with a humbling 24-hour ascent that sparked an obsession with climbing more efficiently.

In this episode, we follow that progression from growing up in rural Tennessee to discovering Colorado's alpine climbing scene, falling in love with Longs Peak, and spending nearly a decade refining every aspect of movement in the mountains. John shares how trail running, simul-climbing, and countless laps on Eldorado Canyon classics like the Naked Edge became the foundation for bigger objectives, eventually leading to the fastest ascents ever of the Diamond.

Along the way, we dive into the history of speed climbing on Longs Peak, the philosophy behind efficiency in the alpine, balancing a career in aerospace with ambitious climbing goals, and why some of the most meaningful objectives are the ones waiting just outside your back door.

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A huge thank you to our sponsor, Misty Mountain, for supporting The Ground Up Podcast. Since 1985, Misty Mountain has been handcrafting climbing harnesses and equipment in North Carolina, building gear that's trusted by climbers no matter the challenge.

As a listener of The Ground Up Podcast, you can save 15% on harnesses, gear, and apparel with the code GROUNDUP at checkout.

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Follow the John on Instagram: @jalcrn

Stay up to date with John's latest activities on Strava

Read about John's FKT of The Diamond of Long's Peak

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Get access to exclusive and ad-free content by becoming a Patreon 

Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

Check out our new website: https://www.thegrounduppodcast.com/

Sign up for the Mailing List!

Vasya Vorotnikov is a seasoned veteran of the climbing world, with over 30 years of climbing experience and a deep background as a movement coach and route setter. Known for demolishing massive personal goals—like ticking off over ten 5.14s, over a hundred 5.13s, and 365 5.12s or harder in a single year—Vasya approaches climbing from a refreshing perspective: that technique, creative thinking, and mental capacity trump raw physical strength almost every time.

In this episode, we talk about adapting your training to fit your lifestyle, contrasting Ari’s abundant outdoor access in Denver with Rob’s gym-dependent, unpredictable freelancing schedule in New York City. Vasya breaks down his 80/20 rule for building true endurance, detailing solo gym strategies like arcing to mimic long pitches, ground-based block pulling for safe finger strength, and the humbling "5-7-9" conditioning workout. We also dive into how to be intentional when you step outside, transforming a hard project into a legitimate workout rather than falling into the trap of diminishing returns.

This conversation is a deep dive into movement efficiency, highly optimized solo training protocols, and how to strategically structure your gym and crag time to smash your limits, no matter what environment you find yourself in.

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Follow the Vasya on Instagram: @vasyav87

Check out Vasya's insane tick list on 8a.nu

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Get access to exclusive and ad-free content by becoming a Patreon 

Follow along on Instagram: @listentogroundup 

Check out our new website: https://www.thegrounduppodcast.com/

Sign up for the Mailing List!