Agentic Conversations (formally mlops.community)

What happens to the web when the ones browsing it are no longer people? Sarah Drasner, Area Tech Lead at Google, sits down with us ahead of her Agentic Web keynote at AGNTCon + MCPCon North America. She works through that question from both directions: rebuild the web so agents can use it properly, or build agents smart enough to handle the web as it already exists.

We get into the split between computer-use and browser-use agents on one side and API and MCP agents on the other. We also watch a real example of the idea in action: an agent pulling speaker photos from Flickr, hunting down company logos, and loading everything into Canva so the human only touches the creative part. From there, Sarah shares the unlikely origin story of WebMCP (and who's to blame for it). We then pressure-test a bold idea: a WebMCP gateway that could cover the huge share of websites that will never ship support on their own.

Along the way, we cover the instinct that separates senior engineers, the ability to sense which business problems are actually worth solving. We also talk about how thought experiments cut through a pile of competing priorities, the hacky WebMCP workarounds already showing up in the wild, and why the best agent experiences are the ones that delight customers in ways they never saw coming.

Demetrios Brinkmann: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpbrinkm
Sarah Drasner: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahdrasner

Timestamps:
[0:00] Cold open
[0:52] The AGNTCon keynote
[1:23] Change the web or fix agents
[3:35] Browser agents vs MCP agents
[5:48] An agent that builds thumbnails
[7:03] Keeping the creative work human
[9:12] Agent allowances and engineering instinct
[13:34] Thought experiments and priorities
[15:23] The WebMCP origin story
[17:08] A WebMCP gateway for the web
[18:53] It works, but it is not ideal
[19:44] Hacky WebMCP in the wild

Everyone is racing to build one agent that can do everything. Justin Schroeder, co-founder of Standard Agents, thinks the future looks more like thousands of tiny ones. Ahead of his talk on domain-specific agents at AGNTCon + MCPCon North America, he explains why tightly scoped agents might be the smarter bet, even if it feels like a step back toward the single-purpose machine learning models of a few years ago.

We dig into standards as metadata you pin to an agent, so that it shows up with everything it needs in its harness. Then we test the idea against the obvious objection: if a big model can already handle the task, why scope down at all? The answer covers forcing functions, a microservices mindset for agent design, and small agents that quietly check issues or unread messages every five minutes. It also covers the surprise $1K bill waiting for anyone who leaves their agents running.

Then it turns into a proper debate. Our host is 99% sure the agent marketplace will never happen, and Justin arrives with a counter that might change his mind (hint: think about where your skills come from). Along the way, we cover agents as tools versus a big-brain router and how anyone keeps track of a thousand agents. We also talk about why the people who know what agents can do and the people who know what they need still have to meet in the middle.

Demetrios Brinkmann: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpbrinkm
Justin Shroeder: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jpschroeder

Timestamps:
[0:00] Cold open
[1:03] The future is domain-specific agents
[1:51] God models vs specialist agents
[2:20] The perfect Gmail agent
[3:14] Why standards are missing
[3:29] Train the prompt, not the model
[4:30] The harness beats the model
[6:07] Standards and runtimes for agents
[8:17] Why scope down at all
[10:07] Why model routing won't win
[10:29] The surprise $1K bill
[11:12] Agents that build agents
[12:09] Agents as tools
[13:23] Managing a thousand agents
[14:24] Agents for Main Street
[15:37] Agent marketplaces will never happen
[16:52] Skills are just bad agents
[18:04] Skills are already a marketplace
[20:12] Domain experts build the agents
[22:12] Wrap up

What happens to an MMORPG when half the players never log off? Issac Lee, who runs AI and blockchain experiments at NEXUS, has been testing that idea. His team is filling game worlds with agent players instead of scripted NPCs, so a new title feels alive from day one.

We get into why agent-generated content could be the next step after studio-made and user-generated games. We also cover how agent populations might solve the chicken-and-egg problem every multiplayer launch faces, and what it means when your fellow players are relentless and never need sleep. Isaac walks through the NEXUS lab: a text-to-3D world builder for Roblox, an AI pipeline that turns ONE store novels into short web dramas, a loop-based tool for natural pixel animation, and Da Vinci, the internal multi-agent framework the team uses to ship.

Then the conversation turns to infrastructure. We talk about why NEXUS went from 200 hand-defined agent roles to a much thinner harness, whether custom harnesses still matter now that Claude and Codex exist, and why the Kimi release pushed the company to start building its own small data center for inference. We close on context: how much of your life you should hand to an AI, what personalized meeting notes could look like, and why shopping agents may force every ecommerce site to rethink who it's designing for.
Demetrios Brinkmann: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpbrinkmIssac Lee: https://www.linkedin.com/in/issacley/?locale=ko

Timestamps:[0:00] Cold open[0:57] AI in gaming at NEXUS[2:19] Text to 3D and the last 10 percent[4:38] AI companions and coaches[6:35] Agent players in MMORPGs[8:27] From UGC to agent-generated content[11:07] Agents that never sleep[12:58] Taming fuzzy prompts[19:24] Inside Da Vinci[23:10] Undercover QA agents[27:14] Do harnesses still matter[31:52] Self-hosting open models[41:33] Lab experiments and Bob[50:42] How much context is too much[54:22] Marketing and shopping agents

Picture a startup with ten engineers hammering away on AI and one person lying awake over a $20,000 bill that hasn't arrived yet. That's the scenario we put to Jason Ward, who handles FinOps for AI at C.H. Robinson and recently joined the FinOps Foundation's AI working group.

Jason's first answer is not glamorous: tag every AI resource so you know who owns it. The rest of the episode is what that makes possible. He walks through how C.H. Robinson runs AI across order entry, quoting, booking, and tracking, and why the team routes Anthropic models through Vertex AI to keep data locked down.

Then come the metrics. Jason uses AI to dig through his own observability platform for signals he didn't know were there. One of them is how chatty a model is. That signal turned a prompt bloat alert into a bug in the code that kept retrying and burning tokens. Its opposite, context starvation, burns tokens too: a model with too little context keeps failing and trying again.
We also cover why agentic and conversational workloads need separate baselines. Jason explains why cost per order is the easy win, and why most of the real work doesn't fit into neat discrete tasks. That's where his experimental cost per thought metric comes in, with reasoning ratio and cache hit rate alongside it. His advice is simple: your AI is the best tool you have for understanding your AI.

Alex Salkever: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexsalkever
Jason Ward: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jward2

Timestamps:[0:00] Cold open[0:33] Meet Jason Ward from C.H. Robinson[1:18] AI use cases in logistics[1:52] Azure OpenAI and Vertex AI[2:19] Why keeping data in-house matters[2:44] How developers use AI day to day[3:40] Using AI to hack AI observability[4:21] Measuring how chatty a model is[5:45] Advice for a startup afraid of its AI bill[6:33] Step one is tag every AI resource[7:05] The Copilot billing blind spot[7:44] Why spend is only half the story[8:12] Break down cost by app and by model[9:09] The prompt bloat that exposed a bug[10:03] Context starvation[11:28] What goes into the AI spend report[12:21] Discrete tasks are low-hanging fruit[12:58] Agentic vs conversational workloads[14:12] Know the workflow before you report on it[15:02] The CTO's end goal[16:08] Cost per thought[17:59] Reasoning ratio and cache hit rate[19:06] Dynamic model routing[20:04] Use your AI to improve your AI

Caveman prompting has one rule: why use many words when few do the trick? It saves tokens on the way in and on the way out. Push it too far, though, and the output falls apart. So how far is too far? Nobody has benchmarked it yet, and that question opens our conversation with James Barney, Head of Forward Labs at MetLife.

James spends his days connecting new AI capabilities to old business problems across dozens of regulatory regimes, and he still finds time to push code. He explains how the FinOps Foundation's AI working group took on the most basic question: which model for which workload, and why the answer always comes down to cost, speed, and accuracy. We get into Anthropic's launch pricing for Fable, why a million tokens is easy to price and hard to explain, and why every stakeholder eventually tells you what they really care about once you name the wrong North Star.

From there it gets practical. Start with the smartest model, then step down and add harness until quality holds. Treat exploration tokens like local builds and production tokens like pipelines. Govern agents the way you govern people, with proactive blocks, reactive checks, and policy as code an agent can actually read.

We close on a bigger shift. When a chat window can pull from every dashboard at once, do we still need dashboards? James thinks mostly not, with one catch he calls the latent shopper problem: some insights only come from browsing data you did not know to ask about.

Demetrios Brinkmann: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dpbrinkm
James Barney: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-barney

Timestamps:
[00:00] Cold open
[01:03] Meet James from MetLife
[01:11] What AI enablement means at a global insurer
[03:27] Inside the FinOps Foundation AI working group
[05:03] The caveman skill challenge
[06:37] Why we need a CaveBench
[07:43] Anthropic's Fable launch pricing
[09:34] Planning for surprise model releases
[11:45] Measuring AI value beyond cost
[12:47] Finding your unit metric
[14:15] Tying token spend to business outcomes
[16:35] Explore first, then optimize
[18:12] AI that tunes itself
[20:13] Do R&D tokens count
[23:24] When the experiment becomes the product
[25:38] Personal agents and daily briefings
[27:39] Governing agents that run just because they can
[30:37] The layers of AI governance
[31:56] Proactive and reactive guardrails
[32:59] Policy as code for agents
[34:41] Stop the click ops
[35:31] Is the modern UI obsolete
[36:36] MCP apps and chat as the new browser
[38:07] How AI gathers data differently than humans
[40:37] The latent shopper problem
[42:12] Staying close to your data